Ya know... I sortof have this "Other Outlander Universe". It's like the sideways life in "LOST".... or a "what could have been", if you will. It's a place where things turned out differently, based on the thought that one small decision change could have brought on a totally different outcome. (Think "Sliding Doors").
So in my Sideways Outlander world, Geilie and Dougal actually get married and live at Leoch after the Fiscal and Dougal's wife both died. They're just sickeningly fun characters... and I think of all the antics and hijinks Claire and Geilie could have gotten involved in at the castle. Geilie whispering to Claire about Laogwhore's naughty travels around the castle.... Jamie and Claire getting into heated arguments about Claire's friendship with Geilie (just THINK of the make-up sex!!)... Dougal coming home wounded after battle and us getting to see Geilie's softer side as she gives ministrations to Dougal.
Am I the only one who thinks up these things in my brain?
Is Geillis really the tender, ministering kind? I think in the end, Dougal might have very well ended up like the Fiscal: dead when he no longer served Geillis' purpose.
ReplyDeleteShe's just so creepy...
Not to mention both Dougal and Geilie going slowly insane from syphillis... now, that would be fun to watch!
ReplyDeletehehehehe
i'm with jo. dougal would have ended up dead too as soon as geillis didn't need him anymore. she was a sociopath.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree about the "other Outlander universe." I have one in my head as well! I also love to think about what the characters did/were doing when we weren't privy to it via DG's writing (when time passes in the book, like when Jamie and Claire were at Lallybroch or in Paris). I'd love to be witness to their everyday live when there isn't some tragedy or other literary necessity befalling them (of course, this would make for boring writing but it would be perfect for me!)
ReplyDeleteHmmm. Not sure I agree that Geillis would have taken out Dougal. I think she met her match with THAT MacKenzie--he's no weak-kneed Arthur, that's for sure! I think BOTH of them would have needed to watch their backs...
ReplyDeleteI do love noticing all the Geillis/Dougal potential rendezvous in the reread tho. Interesting question--do you think Dougal really felt something for her, or was he just caught in her spell, so to speak.
Agreed, Tracey. Geillis couldn't take out Dougal - no way. They're both conniving and clever, but he would have the whole clan behind him - as illustrated by Colum's agreement to "take care of things" when he found out Geillis was pregnant. Was Dougal really in love with her? No - no way. He would never have let Colum get rid of her knowing she was pregnant if he really loved her.
ReplyDeleteOK, I've had a chance to think about the 'sliding doors' idea and here's my alternate outlander universe: What if it was Jamie that came through the stones and met up with Claire? I sorta have this idea of him staggering into one of the field hospitals where she was during the war and everyone thinking he was some sort of shell-shocked fly-boy...
ReplyDeleteum... yeah, I can see I'm getting way too far off track here - a little too much like the fan-fic that Diana Gabaldon (rightfully so, I might add) protests.
I do think it's interesting to speculate, though, on things that have happened behind the scenes, so to speak. It's funny, isn't it, that these characters - even the relatively minor ones (I have this whole thing about Ned Gowen... but, never mind)- they are all so alive, so clear in our minds, that it's really not hard at all to imagine them in other scenes. I think it's fun, but, seriously, I much prefer to read what DG comes up with for the story - it's much better than anything I could think up!
I think that Dougal and Gellis would have been one of those, "I love you, I hate you" couples. She wouldn't have killed him, even though she is a crazy.
ReplyDeleteI think that Dougal may have loved her...? (SPOILER ALERT) He did rescue her and take her to France. If he really didn't care for her, he would have just taken her money and ran to Bonnie Prince Charlie.
I don't know if he really thought Column was going to off her, Column did tell Dougal that he'd do right by her. But, that's just another example of those conniving Mackenzies!
I just thought of something! Ok, so do you think that when Jamie said to Claire about NOT going and visiting Gellis while he went off hunting that he knew that Gellis was going to be offed? Wee ho knew too, maybe it may have been somewhat known around the castle?
ReplyDeleteWOW Megs--WAAAAY interesting observation!! It's verra possible--tho I do wonder that if Jamie knew something was going on, 1) would he have left, seeing as he knew that Claire was not exactly good at obeying his orders ;-), and 2) would he have tried in some way to stop it? So I don't really know--but it sure is an interesting possibility.
ReplyDeleteWonder if the possibility has ever been discussed on CompuServe????
Dougal and Colum both probably knew that Geillis wouldn't be killed/executed until after the baby had been born. In many ways, I think DG shows Dougal to be the weaker of the two brothers because he is so rash and driven by his emotions. Perhaps he felt guilty about what he allowed to happen to Geillis and so took her France.
ReplyDeleteOk, I've been thinking more about it and I think that Jamie knew something was up, in regards to what was going on with Gellis. But, didn't know exactly what was going to happen to her since when he said goodbye to Claire it was 2 weeks before Wee Ho set her up! Of course if he knew how severe Gellis’ future was, he may have told Claire, “Dinna go over there if Gellis is dyeing, or no!”
ReplyDeleteI mean, it totally could be that Jamie thought Gellis was just bad news, but when I was reading (actually, I was listening to) him talking about staying away from Gellis, I really felt like he knew something was up!
He knows that Claire is a bad listener when it comes to his counsel, but she did promise him that she would always obey him. Perhaps after that spanking he gave her, he really thought that she would?
Remember, it was Ned Gowan who showed up first to defend Claire. He SAID no one sent him, he came for the adventure...Jamie came later. If Jamie had known, wouldn't he have come first? I think Jamie was telling Claire to stay away from Geilis because of the baby in the faerie ring they tried to save. He was afraid Claire was (rightly so) going to be accused of being a witch along with Geilie.
ReplyDeleteHoly cow I'm loving this discussion.
ReplyDeleteFirst off - Christie - I thought the same thing about fanfic when I was typing that post! I was like "oooh... is this a little creepy that I'm even mentioning my Sideways Outlander World? LOL But seriously - I don't think you can be this into the series and NOT think that way. ALSO - let's HAVE IT! I want to hear your thoughts on the NEDster!
Megs - the point about Jamie knowing about Geillis blew me away. I've never considered that. Maybe - just maybe - Laogwhore KNEW Jamie knew and KNEW he'd forbid Claire from going...and that's why she said Geilie was sick because she KNEW that was the ONLY way to get her there. Hmmm...
Pam - I think (but can't remember and haven't gotten there yet in the reread) that Jamie was still too far away from the castle to know that Claire was being tried when Ned set off on his journey. I think Ned had a thing for Claire and that's why he went. (Again - I could be totally wrong, I really can't remember the details which is why it's so AWESOME to do a reread!)
Everyone else: You guys ROCK and I love all this discussion. Dougal and Colum and what they knew or didn't know... god it's too much to ponder! I love it! It'll tide me over until Book 8 comes out! :)
Maybe you're right - was Jamie off hunting with the visiting Duke?? I'm going to have to go back and re-read it now!
ReplyDeletehehehehe... I was totally joshing about Ned Gowan! In my mind he's some little guy, sorta like a garden gnome - 100 years old, all dried up and smiling all the time! But you totally proved my point - even the minor characters are so fleshed out that we feel we know them really, really well!
ReplyDeleteAs to where Jamie was when Claire was thrown in the hole with Geillis - I think he was hunting with the Duke and Murtagh had to ride hell-bent to leather and go get him when Claire got in trouble. Maybe this is something we will see more details about when the graphic novel comes out??!!! Can't hardly wait!!!!
I like the casting of the Travelocity gnome as Ned Gowan!! This is really making me want to cast Outlander with cartoons and such. I already totally think of Mrs. Butterworth as Mrs. Bug--LOL!
ReplyDeleteHi Carol,
ReplyDeleteI too have a sideways sort of Outlander world too, were I imagine how things happened that we aren't privy to. I also for fun sometimes try to imagine if Frank could have actually been able to time travel back and had found Jaime and Claire in a scene were it was really obvious why Jaime really got Claire and he didn't... is that too mean?! lol
I think that Jaime might have had some inkling as to something would happen to Geillis, like have heard some rumor or something, but not necessarily that there would be a witch trial. And he was hunting with the Duke too far to know immediately that Claire was taken and it was Alec the master groomer that went to get him.
And Tracy, I totally see Mrs Bug as Mrs Butterworth!! LOL
The more I think about it, the more I doubt that Jamie had direct knowledge of Colum/Dougal's plan re: Geillis. For one thing, if he had, I think he would have done something to try and stop it, given Claire's friendship with her and his own morals/honor. For another, had he known there was a serious plot in play, he would have done much more than just ask Claire not to go see her--he would have locked her in their room or tied her to a tree or something (LOL), but certainly not left her unprotected.
ReplyDeleteI think Jamie had heard the gossip in the village, given what happened to Geilie's husband, and knew that a) such gossip often snowballs into something greater, and b) didn't want Claire anywhere near a potential screaming throng of witch-hunters. But I guess we will find out the truth come September when the GN is out!!
Playing What If? is a far cry from writing fan fic so I think we are not dissing DG.
ReplyDeleteYou have me wondering why Murtagh was not on the hunting trip with Jamie. Murtagh took his oath to Ellen seriously - I thought he would always go on a major trip to watch Jamie's back.
Ned Gowan is awesome.
Could it be possible that Murtagh was not on the hunting trip with Jamie becuase Jamie told Murt to watch Claire, make sure she was safe? Jamie definitely trusted in Murt's protection.
ReplyDeleteI just got to the part in the re-read where Jamie has rescued Claire from the witch trial. I canna remember who alerted Jamie to Claire's misfortune. Was it Murt? Was it ald Alec?
If I could cast Murtagh (according to Claire's discription and not his GN picture) I would cast him with David Bradley who played Argus Filtch in Harry Potter! Here's a link:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Guod6Aisal0/RlgGbGXF2TI/AAAAAAAACQg/Yl9gIPU-L9I/argus+filch.jpg
Megs--it was auld Alec who heard what was going on and rode to get Jamie--forget where we find that out--I think right after the rescue.
ReplyDeleteMy Murtaugh is kind of a strange choice: Michael J. Fox. He's really small, really wiry, age-appropriate [nearly 50!!], and as he's gotten older, he's gotten a sort of craggy-ness that seems right for Murtaugh. Plus, I think the GN Murtaugh resembles him--but maybe that's just because I'm seeing what I want to see!!
Holy cow - I'm finding myself avoiding the last few comments because they contain info about how Jamie found out about Claire's involvement in the witch trial. AND I'VE READ IT ALREADY!!!! LOL
ReplyDeleteI think Jamie could have known - but I'm trying to figure out of that's just because I'm intrigued by the prospect. Tracey - I agree - Jamie wouldna have left Claire unprotected. IF Murtagh was left at the castle to "watch" Claire, I don't think she would have gotten to the front door without Murtagh stopping her. But I dinna think Jamie would have shown any loyalty to Geilie at all. He told Claire to stay away from her... and he knew all too well what could happen to a woman like her. I dunno... the whole fact of Jamie leaving Claire for so long with only a "don't go to Geilie's" is a little hard to swallow anyway.
I think I have to blog about this now...
Carol said: But I dinna think Jamie would have shown any loyalty to Geilie at all. He told Claire to stay away from her... and he knew all too well what could happen to a woman like her. I dunno... the whole fact of Jamie leaving Claire for so long with only a "don't go to Geilie's" is a little hard to swallow anyway.
ReplyDelete1) Disagree in that I think he WOULD have shown loyalty if it really mattered to Claire.
SPOILER AHEAD!!!
Remember--he didn't take out Jack Randall b/c Claire asked him not to. BLOODY MOFO BLACK JACK RANDALL!!!! And he had WAY more cause to take HIM out...
2) I do agree that the whole "yeah, stay away from Cranesmuirkbye!" attitude was a wee bit cavalier for our JAMMF....
Hmmmm...I smell a video topic for this weekend....
ReplyDeleteCarol said...
ReplyDeleteRight Tracey but think about this - Claire hasna done any major Geilie cheerleading to Jamie. Jamie knows Claire talks to Geilie and skips around picking herbs with her but Claire's never been all "Ohhhh Geilie's my friendddd". And dinna forget lass, Geilie only had a mere vagina. And it was the 18th century. She wasn't even as important as a horse to a lot of these men. And even though Jamie respects to women (for the most part), he's not going to try to help her if his uncles think she's a witch and want to get rid of her.
Tracey,
ReplyDeleteClaire asked Jamie not to off BJ Randall because she wanted to save Frank. She had no big friendship or other motivation to save Gellie. I think we're reading too much into Jamie knowing stuff about Gellie... He just didn't like her and like Megs said, didn't want Claire associated with her because of the changeling thing.
Really enjoying the Outlander re-read Carol!
Sally
Oooh Sally! Wait until you see the next video! It's a big, ol' "What did Jamie know?" FEST! LOL
ReplyDelete