SPOILER ALERT: Dinna read unless you have finished An Echo in the Bone.
So I've been doing some serious pondering and surmising about "Book 8". Allow me to share.
I was brushing my teeth and thinking about how much I miss the Outlander crew. I then said to myself, "Self", I said, "what on earth is Book 8 going to be about? Is it going to grab me from Page 1?" I then thought "Oh it's going to start off with Jamie finding out about Claire sleeping with Lord John... so of course it's going to grab me." I then did the usual pondering about Claire sleeping with Lord John and what Jamie's reaction is going to be... yada yada yada... we've all been there a thousand times in our heads.
And that's when it happened. "Self", I said, "what is Willy's role going to be in Book 8?" And all at once, I knew. Jamie and Willy are going to rekindle the relationship they forged all those years ago at Helwater and truly become father and son. Ask me why I think this. Go ahead. I'll wait.
HERE'S WHY: THAT'S why Claire HAD to sleep with Lord John. Diana probably thought to herself, "Well, I'd like to form that father and son bond between Jamie and William - but how in the world can I do that with William's relationship with his "father", Lord John... and with the respect Jamie has for his best male friend in the world?" And that's when she probably said to herself "Lord John has got to do something so awful, so hideous that Jamie won't feel the least bit bad getting close to Willy as his true father"...
And then she probably said "But what? What on earth could Lord John possibly do that would make Jamie THAT mad?"
And the rest, my friends... is (future) history.
First I have to giggle because my first thought was from Seinfeld...You yada yada'd sex....
ReplyDeleteTHAT said. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the whole thing and I just can't yet. I think I should have started the Lord John books BEFORE I read the last book. I just don't wait to read them right now so I'm in mourning until the next book I think.
very interesting thought...and just think of the possiblities of how Jamie and William go about getting to that point of rekindling, when last we left them William wanted to kill Jamie. So how will he get from point A to B. From hating Jamie to wanting to get to know him...hmmmmm!
ReplyDeleteLis--I have said it before and I'll say it again--Brotherhood of the Blade should be on the Outlander syllabus as a prerequisite to Echo. Besides introducing you to characters like Percy, it REALLY gets you inside LJ's mind where Jamie is concerned....
ReplyDeleteTracey Oh I wish I knew that before I read! But I'll spread the word to my friends :)
ReplyDeleteOk, your posts are getting addicting...just like the series.
ReplyDeleteI am thinking that Diana may make us wait for that LJ, Jamie, Claire story line...because that is what we really want to know about. I just can't wait for Jamie and Claire to finally be together again. (For more than the few minutes they were afforded at the end of "Echo".) I hate when they are separated! I did not like, at all, Claire being on a totally different continent than Jamie. I knew nothing good would come of it.
I have not read the LJ books.
hahahaha! 'on the syllabus as a prerequistie' - I love it! Totally agree! Tracey, no wonder you are our Outlander mentor!
ReplyDeleteI'm (still) working my way through Pillars... it's a testament to DG's work that by this amount of time on her books I had probably finished 4 or 5 of them and I am only through part 1 of Pillars - DG's books are just so compelling I literally couldn't put them down! It's weird with Pillars - I like the story and really want to find out what happens but I don't like the writing. It's too simple. "This is Tom. He is a builder. He wants to build a cathedral. See Tom. See Tom run. Run, Tom, run."
OH, Diana... you have spoiled me! My life will never be the same! Woe is me! (Finish book 8 already! Make it 2 little books instead of one huge book! We're dying here!!!!!)
Now, here's my thing - I loved it that Claire and LJ slept together! I literally laughed out loud! I wanted to call someone on the phone and scream! It was PERFECT - not because I wanted them to be together but because it showed me, yet again, the genius of Diana Gabaldon - don't give the reader what they think they want - give 'em what they think they can't handle. Absolute genius, I'm telling ya. Yep. Spoiled. Totally.
ROFLMAO Christie. "See Tom build". Shit that was funny.
ReplyDeleteBretam - agreed. I thought of that too. Just because Jamie is going to feel guilt-free in embracing William as his son, he's going to have to get William to embrace him (and his red hair) as his father.
Lis - Tracey told me to read the LJG books before I read Echo, too. I didna listen. I just had her give me the Cliff's notes over the phone. ;)
Danette - a) You rock. This is you, rocking. b) You just brought back that memory - so vividly - of Claire deciding to leave Jamie and go back to Philadelphia (after the big, friggin WEEest HO on the PLANET gave her the info about Henri Christian). Oh god it killed me.
Putting the rest of my comment up as a new post. This all deserves further discussion. I love when I have a Eureka moment that makes for blog fodder to last for days!
I totally want Jamie and Wills to have a great relationship. My fear is that Wills is going to get himself into a heap of trouble from Randal-Issacs. Maybe Jamie and John will rebond when they rescue him just in the nick of time. So many options. Remember the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books. At the end of each chapter there were options to choose how you wanted the story to go. That is what we need. I live for blog fodder.
ReplyDeleteI love it how you said to yourself "Self". LOL
ReplyDeleteI Love you idea about DG needing Jamie to be mad at LJ. That totally makes sense. I think I feel a little better about it. Not much though!
I also dinna listen to Tracey when she told me to read Lord John before Echo.
ReplyDeleteThat will never happen again. *bows to Tracey's knowledge of all things Outlander*
I NEED Jmaie and Willy to rekindle their father-son relationship.
Christie,
ReplyDeletePillars was highly recommended to me by a few friends so after multiple re-reads of the Outlander Series, I thought it would help pull me out of the obsession and into new series. WRONG. I couldn't even finish Pillars... I got half way through and gave up. I liked the characters (not loved) and the writing was just simple and BLAH (like you said). There haven't been many books I've actually liked since finishing the series over a year ago!
Carol,
I think you're on to something, however, according to Diana, the "encounter" just happened. She didn't plan it :)
Oooh Sally thanks for reminding me that Pillars is on tonight! Squeee! I do see your point. Had I read Outlander first, I don't know what I'd have thought. That said, if you gave up halfway through (and again, I don't blame you) you missed out on one of the "sighhhhhh" storylines that makes me love the book so much. It's another I compare to Outlander. One day for a few minutes I literally questioned whether it happened to _____ in Pillars... or Jamie in Outlander.
ReplyDeleteAs for Diana - I'm not buyin' it. I think she says some of this stuff to throw us off. ;) (I'm going to keep thinking that no matter what. It's molds perfectly to my "no spoiler" lifestyle. All I have to do is stick my fingers in my ears and pretend, pretend, pretend.) ;)
Aww, y'all are making me blush with all the mentor stuff. I need to bring my OWN Outlander mentor on here one of these days--she is the Yoda to my Obi Wan LOL.
ReplyDeleteSo anyway, here's the thing: IMO, the thing that was keeping Jamie from getting close to William was NOT any respect he may or may not have for LJ (tho that was a small piece of it, I suppose), but the fact that the TRUTH--ie, your father is really the former estate groom, not the eighth earl of ellsmere--would almost certainly have damaging repercussions for William. But now that the secret is out, I don't think that LJ would begrudge Jamie getting to know William more--I don't think there was a need for LJ to do something horrible to encourage Jamie forging a relationship with Willie once the cat was out of the bag.
The REAL conflict here re: Willie is not between LJ and Jamie--it's between LJ/Jamie and Willie. It's gonna be tough for Jamie to have a relationship with Willie not because he's afraid of hurting LJ but because at this point, Willie despises both of them and never wants to see either one again.
Tracey/Mentor/Lover of JAMMF:
ReplyDeleteI don't put much weight into William's bad feelings toward Jamie at this point. Yeah yeah, he's mad... but he's going to get over it. And it's my feeling that he's going to want to get to know Jamie. Let's face it; he's Jamie Fraser. He has a presence. He is a mentor. William will feel that. And he's had all those flashbacks; he'll remember.
I do agree that Jamie would never put William in a bad position - but Lord John was always soooo terrified of him finding out. I think a small part (or rather a hidden part) of Jamie wanted William to find out. I do think it's going to be a huge issue between LJG and Jamie. For all intents and purposes, William is his son. When that's gone, a huge chunk of his existence goes with it.
Oh, Christie, we're on the same wavelength again. I'm enjoying the characters and story of Pillars, but the writing style is making me nutty. Just not epic. I have trouble making myself listen (I'm doing it on audio) - I find myself listening to pieces from Outlander, DiA or Voyager instead of picking up where I left off in Pillars. LOVE the miniseries, though.
ReplyDeleteChristie and all, I really loved Pillars (wept when Agnes died!) and was definitely drawn in to the story, but the "See Tom Build" factor was always there. It's like Ken Follett stumbled into this spectacular plot but just didn't have the chops to really make the writing sing. But I DID love it, and though at times it was simplistic, he never lost track of his own plot the way DG does several times toward the end of Echo (or was it abosaa? hm), which is SO insane! Of course, that's on Book Seven of her saga, not in book one. SO, pillars, IMHO a great read, but not great writing. Reading World without End, and more of the same - great story, but too much See Tom Build. He Builds a Cathedral!
ReplyDeleteAnd, thanks to your post, Carol, I FINALLY have some inkling of understanding about why the Claire-LJ liaison had to happen. At least, it makes it so much easier for me to comprehend it!!! I don't know why, but it never "clicked" for me before. Now it does!
Carol-I agree with you about the bad feelings that Willie has right now resolving themselves quickly. He is madder than a hornet but only because he realized he has been lied to all these years. We'll see more flashbacks in book 8 and he'll realize that Jamie was his father figure long before LJ came along.
ReplyDeleteLJ loves Willie and always wanted the best for him but IMO LJ was also scared of Willie finding out about Jamie because he didn't want to loose the connection with Jamie, the man he had been in love with for the last 20 odd years. Up until that point, he could be sure that Jamie would always seek him out, if only to get status reports on his son but if that connection was broken, then he might never see Jamie again, an unbearable thought.
"Now, here's my thing - I loved it that Claire and LJ slept together! I literally laughed out loud! I wanted to call someone on the phone and scream! It was PERFECT - not because I wanted them to be together but because it showed me, yet again, the genius of Diana Gabaldon - don't give the reader what they think they want - give 'em what they think they can't handle. Absolute genius, I'm telling ya. Yep. Spoiled. Totally."
ReplyDeleteLoved this comment. I too loved that they slept together. It made me think of when Bree asked LJ to marry her and he talked about the temptation since "she so resembled her father". When LJ slept with Claire, I thought that for both of them it was just a subsitute for Jamie. LJ can never be with Jamie, but through Claire he can, and for Claire who knew of LJ's love for Jamie, it was like she was sharing Jamie with someone she knew cared about him like did.
I, too, loved when Claire slept with LJG. I thought it was genius and I thought it was fun. Literally, fun. It was just such a change from the norm - and totally out of left field. And - let's face it - it spices things up a bit. Lordddddd the fun we're all going to have when Claire and Jamie work this out. Yessiree.
ReplyDeleteWhat's odd is that I felt no disgust whatsoever when it was Claire doing that to Jamie (perhaps because he was dead in her mind and she wasn't cheating) and yet I was miserable when Jamie laid with the naked squaws. Tracey says it's because it's written in the first person so I feel like I'm Claire and it's being done to me - versus me doing something to Jamie.
I did enjoy the situation though. I totally must agree.