Can't wait for your review tomorrow. I thought it was done perfect, even without the wolves. I especially loved the moment when Claire whispers his death date in BJR's ear.Thanks for the fun & enlightenment you bring to us, ladies
Jaime knew they were looking for him because according to Dougal (I don't remember if it is in the book this way) he got captured when he went to a village looking for the woman who was singing the song...so yeah he could have tried to live a little longer to give them time to find him...Y'all are great by the way! First time watching you :)
Ooh good point Lisa! Didn't even think of that--JAMMF clearly knew that they knew what had happened to them. So the whole "stall for time" thing definitely makes sense...
Thank you ladies for another wonderful recap! What a tough episode to watch. So well done. I literally flinched with every blow of the hammer. I was surprised where they left off though; I thought they’d get farther along in the story (trying not to give spoilers). Oh, and the thing with the bracelets. IIRC in the book it was introduced much earlier (at Quarter Day) about Murtaugh and Ellen and the bracelets, so it didn’t seem so repetitive. Oh and THANK GOD they didn’t do the wolf scene, but I was glad they included the wolf howl. Hard to wait two weeks for the next episode! Take care all. -Lisa D.
Oh, thank you! I must be mis-remembering the sequencing. I recalled something with Murtaugh and Claire on Quarter Day but that may have been a conversation about Mrs. Fitz.
In the book, McRannoch recognizes Murtagh and tells the story of the boar hunt and Murtagh being gifted with the tusks. Claire remembers seeing the bracelets at Lallybroch and makes the connection of who the "secret admirer" is.
I know there is only so much time per episode but all of these little previews are giving too much away. Maybe it's because I'm a reader but I could already see how the rescue will occur. Wasn't it Jamie's right hand that was smashed? I guess we ran out of time on that subject.
Love you guys. (Shortest video ever?? Not so much) There was never a time when we Outlander nuts needed to take care of each other MORE.
I want to make the observation that Sam Heughan owned this episode. With all due respect to Tobias and his over-the-top perverted weirdness, I felt that Sam's restrained anger, his contorted desperation, his controlled heroism -- they ruled every scene he was in. That single tear... that parting scene with Claire...the moments with McQuarrie...the watchfulness,,,all FANTASTIC. I heard someone say once on Inside the Actors Studio that the hardest thing to do as an actor was to be still. Sam (and to some extent Cait) did more by being still than all of Tobias' twitching, mustache-twirling villainy. And remember who was the motivation behind all of BJR's behavior ... Of course, all the credit and notices will go to Tobias --- meh! As I said last week, I have gotten so tired of the shtick (and it really is kind of one-note). In the podcast, Ira Behr made the point that Tobias contributed much of Jack's performance. I think the reason for this is that Tobias really IS, or really wants us to THINK he is, One. Sick. F*ck. I'll drink to that.
The Redcoat "clerks": did you notice that the one left a big inkblotch on McQuarrie's death warrant AFTER the speech about pasty-faced Redcoats prior to his hanging. Very subtle, but telling.
I noticed in this ep that Jamie crossed himself with his right hand. In the past he did it with his left. I am not a Catholic, so I don't know. Is there any significance to this?
SAWNY was def in the personal effects, along with a Fraser brooch and some fishing line.
I SO LOVE MURTAGH. THERE ARE NO WORDS.
Ira Behr made the point that in depicting Marley they had to be careful of not making the character look deformed, developmentally disabled, or in any way "handicapped," so as not to bring down criticism from advocacy groups.
I told you the petition would come back to bite Jamie in the ass --- thank God Murtagh gets him in the end. Can't happen too soon. Hope they show it.
Really well said re: the stillness being a difficult thing as an actor--it's probably the best advice I ever got from a director. Movement "weakens"--in being still, the character projects much more strength. But so difficult!
I think Easter Egg is something that foreshadows what is to come. Sometimes it's something with a hidden meaning, or it could be a nod to something else. For example, in the episode titled The Watch, at the very beginning of the episode they showed the MacQuarrie's watch lying on the ground all bent-up. In Ep. 15 it was the "chandelier of pain" as Tracey called it, foreshadowing the torture that is to come.
We call them Easter eggs because they're like those little extras that programmers throw into apps--no one may ever even see them or think about them except whoever created the app, but it definitely has extra meaning.
Oh, one more thing, I loved Willie at the end! Standing up, strapping on his guns and saying well, no help from this guy, let's not dilly dally any longer and just get on with it!
How about the redcoat pulling down on McQuarry's legs to hurry the process along? UGH UGH UGH gruesome. A "good hanging" is quick - the knot is supposed to break the person's neck - if something goes wrong they just have to hang there and strangle. Shudder.
I agree, as much as I was horrified by BJR and his behavior, the hangman's assistant dragging on the thrashing body was the worst thing in this episode.
Thanks again ladies for a fab recap! Really need to read the books! Did you notice the actor Fraser Hines,playing Sir Fletcher Gordon from Dr Who. Didn't Diana take his character to create James Fraser?! It was a long time ago, late 1960's I think. Keep up the great show. Love it! Thanks
Sorry. You know how much I love you guys, BUT -- Carol, I'm not good with hearing that Jamie (or Claire) are in any way to blame for what happens to themselves. You would not say that about a random female victim of kidnapping or rape. You just wouldn't. It was not up to Jamie to play "Survivor" (outwit, outplay, out-whatever) with BJR. None of this is/was Jamie's fault or under his control.
Jamie understands that BJR is gonna mess with him (remember he said to Claire that BJR likes to "play with his toys") right up until the moment the Redcoats hang him or until BJR accidentally kills him. Recall that Jamie says to him -- YOU'RE the one who sees ME in his dreams. Jamie's got BJR's number, absolutely.
The key to Jamie is not that he isn't terrified -- he IS terrified. He knows that being buggered is the least of what he faces. When BJR talks about getting Jamie's "surrender," he means way more than just f*cking Jamie. He wants Jamie's soul. He wants Jamie to respond to him the way he responds to Claire: he wants Jamie to see him in his dreams. For the rest of his life. Jamie is BJR's white whale; BJR wants to become Jamie's white whale. The key to Jamie is not that he doesn't feel terror; the key is that he DOES feel it and that he CONTROLS the fear. That's a way bigger thing than just letting your freak flag fly, and it's a way bigger challenge for an actor.
We don't see Jamie's hand mashed in the book; we do see the hand nailed to the table.
I think BJR cannot stop Jamie's execution, and he wouldn't try. The book further makes the point that BJR can't torture Jamie beyond the point where Jamie can't walk onto the scaffold under his own power; because if Jamie can't do that, questions will be raised that might blow back on BJR, and he definitely does not want that. He's afraid of repercussions to his career. He makes that clear over his reactions to Jamie's petition in the show.
In the book Jamie tells Claire in Gaelic: "He (BJR) thinks you are powerless; I know you are not." Then he says, "I love you." In English. I think he does expect Claire to keep trying to get him out, but more immediately, he wants to save her from BJR.
Claire temporarily succumbs to despair in the face of seeing Jamie brought low in the prison. But then she regroups and is all about -- how do we get Jamie out?? Sooner rather than later.
How does Claire not suffer broken legs after that fall out of the prison?? Fighting off the wolves with her hands might have been easier in the winter when Claire was wearing gloves, which is when the book action takes place.
No, that was BJR's knife/dagger he cut Jamie's shirt with. Same one he had when he beat Jamie at Lallybroch (the one Jamie thought BJR was going to use to slit his throat); same one he was menacing Claire with at Ft. William. BJR seems to like that knife for some disturbing reasons: phallic-substitute, much???
Remember, as BJR is about to pound the nail into Jamie's hand, he says, "I haven't even begun," or words to that effect. We know it's gonna get worse. What it and his later comment ("Let's begin") reminded me of is the scene in "The Silence of the Lambs" when Lecter is about to go eat the prison guards and says "I'm coming, officer."
Even Sam made the point that he and Tobias could hardly speak to each other off set during the Wentworth scenes. And he mentioned someplace else that the makeup/prosthetics people had to work overtime to do his back (many times in many ways), his hand (apparently that was both makeup and at other times an entire prosthetic hand), his LEGS, AND his head (!?) before they were through.
Sadly, I think NO WAY any of the actors get Emmy noms (sad but true); although both the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal mentioned all of them in that light in their rave reviews of this episode. Someone - I forget who - entitled their review of this episode, "Have fun storming the castle!" a la "The Princess Bride."
I have some Easter Egg thoughts in regard to the "torture mask." Jamie, Claire and BJR all wore masks in this episode. Claire's was evident when she was in Sir Fletcher's office hiding who she really was and her mask came off when he left the room. She was being tortured having to pretend to be on a good deed mission while her whole being is screaming inside. BJR's mask is how he presents himself to the whole world....except for when he is looking at Jamie--totally different face on him...only time he shows feelings (as sick as they are) is when he is looking at Jamie. We already realize that he is a tortured being, (won't use the word human). And, well.... this could just be Sam, but the way his facial expression changed from calm determination in front of BJR to TOTAL FEAR as soon as BJR would walk behind him. Also, internal torture going on trying not to let BJR see what he is thinking and feeling.
Loved your video....as usual....never too long for me. But I disagree with a little thing you guys said early in video when BJR rides in like the Long Ranger. You stated that It is not his doing that Jamie is in Wentworth....but is that right? Isn't HE responsible for the price on Jamie's head because HE killed the redcoat and set Jamie up for it? Isn't BJR the MAIN reason Jamie is an outlaw int he first place, going all the way back to the first time at Lallybroch?
Have a wonderful week off....regretting the season ending....not only will I be suffering from Droughtlander again...but also MOP withdrawals.
Love your thoughts about the masks. In the books Claire repeatedly points out the "mask" that Jamie wears to cover his true feelings. Verra interesting observation!
Hi all! I was very scared for this episode...the hype last week was crazy! I was expecting it to be worse and held my breath through much of it in anticipation. I had to calm down and watch it again to process it. I thought they handled the episode well and that it was about all I could deal with in one hour. I'm glad they didn't show more of the nasty but I'm thinking that's coming next episode. I'm impressed with how closely they are following the book. These are a few thoughts...
LOVED when Murtagh picked up Claire and carried her away from Wentworth. He was my hero in that moment.
The shot right after Claire tells Randall his death date was amazing...their silhouettes with flames in the background (flames Claire came close to burning by) Wow!
For me the creepiest, most awfully cringe worthy scene was when Jamie is cradling his ruined hand, barely conscious, and Black Jack is using his good hand to rub himself. That may be the most disturbing thing I've ever seen. The look on Jamie's face...ugh...can't go there. My heart hurts :(
I was absurdly excited when I heard cows mooing! (Not a phrase you use every day!)
SPOILER ALERT FOR SEASON 2. As I watched this episode the second time, all I could think was...how in the hell could Claire ask Jamie not to kill Black Jack? I know the reasoning for this and when reading the book it was somehow easier to believe. But SEEING what happened is a game changer for me. No way, no how. That man needs to die and damn the consequences. I guess it's time to reread DIA. Maybe I'll answer my own question LOL.
Thanks for the recap! I'd say it's going to be a long two weeks, but my son graduates from high school next weekend so I know it won't...have a feeling it's going to fly by for me! Take care!
Having recently read the books for the.....ehm...15th time, it is more fresh in my mind and the reason why BJR cannot die according to Claire is because Frank will not be born then and history will be changed - spoiler alert - because at the time she thought that BJR was Franks forefather and did not even know about his brother that was the real forefather.
I too recently reread the books. In light of what we've seen in this episode, I don't know how Claire can - SPOILER ALERT - go back to Frank and see BJR's face looking at her all the time. Would make me sick. Also, I am curious why there was no mention of Alex MacGregor, one of BJR's earlier victims and one of the reasons Jamie knows what BJ is capable of. In my mind at least Alex has resonance in the books (through his bible) and BJ's mention of the name.
Heather, I'm with you on this. Didn't like it in the book, won't like it if they do it the same way in the show. Excuse the pun, but Claire didn't know JACK about whether it would change things in the future or not. She did that based on what MIGHT have happened. And it was the WAY she did it, followed by her blaming Jamie for what followed that made me HATE her for the rest of the series. I barely TOLERATED her for six books. If Ron & Co want to change something, here's a change that would make a lot of people happy. I LOVE Balfe's Claire, I'd really hate to see that change.
SPOILERS One of my ongoing problems with the character of Claire in the books is her slavish loyalty to All Things Frank. This begins, as you rightly point out, with her plea to Jamie not to kill BJR when the chance presents itself in DIA; and it continues in other ways through all the books. In the process it causes more heartache for Claire, Jamie, and their nearest and dearest. All this despite the fact that Frank HIMSELF (forget any connection to BJR) eventually proves to be far from the blameless innocent Claire believes him to be. Big gripe of mine, followed closely by Jamie's own hard-to-fathom duty to yet another loathesome character. Those of you who have read the books know who I mean.
Ditto, ditto. She is being "loyal" to a cheat. Everyone but Claire knows that Frank wasn't faithful to her during the war. Maybe she loves who she thinks Frank is in her imagination. Wouldn't be the first wife to do that ...
Super comments all around. I found myself reading and mumbling, "yep, yep, uh huh, agree...exactly!" Its like going to a wonderful book club ( tv show club??) without getting in the car!
The only thing I can add is how profoundly the music score moved me. Bear McCreary has very specific musical passages that you listen for and enjoy with different moods and characters. This entire episode was haunting, sad and heartbreakingly beautiful.
I totally agree with Carol on her comments about Sam's portrayal as Jamie. It is truly uncanny as you said. He really should get recognized for this but Im not so sure the emmy people have even read this series to get what we have observed.
I couldn't watch it! I watched your recap...LOVED! And the episode happened to be on, so I clicked over and it was the part where BJR was touching J's back and J cried the tear...OMG! I switched channels! I will eventually watch it, but not yet.... As Tracey stated, I'm questioning whether I will find this entertaining....
BTW~ Great recap and great comments....maybe this will be enough for me! And my reaction to this is so peculiar (and somewhat perplexing) since I've read the books and know how what's going to happen! LOL!
Did anyone notice BJR shhh Jamie the same way Jamie had to shhh Claire for her own protection BJR was doing the same for Jamie ugh! Just hard to watch and Carol BJR cut Jamie's shirt with the same knife he held against Claire's throat and chest when Jamie went to rescue her it was large but not scissors. Loved the review as always next week is going to be hard for sure. When BJR touched Claire and wiped sweat off her lip saying "sweat of exertion bravo" I need therapy for sure I do not drink but this show will drive me to for sure. Goodness.
Rather than enjoyable, a better word might be engaging, or riveting, or fascinating, like a cobra. Did they show too much - maybe. But to tear our guts out so thoroughly intensifies the knitting of them together that much more.
And as I said before 115, I will say again for 116: Where are we going? Why are we all in these hand-baskets??
After I watched this episode, I had to go read part of Voyager that I have loved. (No spoilers) in order to get the scenes out of my mind. Ugh! Tobias always nails the (no pun intended) sociopath BJR perfectly. UGH!
I know this is late, and no one may read it (that might not be bad), but I’ll go ahead and do my share of shouting into the void (aka internet) anyway.
Tracey and Carol,
I haven’t commented since the second half of the season began, mainly because the first couple of episodes after the break left me a bit nervous about how graphic the show might eventually become. I was afraid I might be out of step with today’s sensibilities and perhaps come across as prudish. However, Tracey’s “Do we need to see this?” comments regarding Jamie’s hand in this recap exactly echoed many of my worries. Although Outlander is an excellent story that both sexes can equally enjoy, traditionally, it has had a very large female fan base. As a woman, I am much more comfortable reading about violence and/or sex than watching prolonged graphic representations of them. Particularly where sex is concerned, the appeal to women tends to be much more cerebral than visual.
As I did not grow up in a time where internet porn and graphic television shows and movies were so easily accessible, I wonder if perhaps I just don’t get it. I also worry that the success (completely inexplicable to me) of the Fifty Shades books will lead male producers and writers to think that NOW they understand what women want! But my greatest fear is that some silent majority will quietly begin to abandon this show if it becomes too graphic. I love the show, and the last several episodes have helped renew my faith. I don’t take issue with a degree of realism (Jenny’s milking scene, for example, no problem), I just don’t want to see this show step too close to the lines of porn and gore. The story, the production, the writing, and the acting are all too good to sacrifice to overly sensational visuals, added merely to attract the attention of viewers with no imaginations. Just my two cents.
To those who commented about Claire assuming that she would be saving Frank by letting BJR live, just remember that Claire doesn’t understand (any more than we do) how Gabaldon’s time travel thing works. As intelligent as Claire is, it would be reasonable to assume that she has spent a lot of time thinking about it. One major point to consider: WITHOUT FRANK, CLAIRE HAS NO REASON TO EVER BE IN SCOTLAND IN THE FIRST PLACE. For all Claire knows, if she ends Frank’s possible existence, she ends her own possibility of ever going back in time to meet Jamie.
I can’t join the Claire-bashers. This first book is a flipped epic where it is the woman who is the ultimate hero. Yes, Claire makes mistakes and we women all love Jamie Fraser. Yes, Jamie is courageous, strong, loyal, intelligent, and supremely lovable. However, Jamie isn’t a wanted man because of Claire. He isn’t a target of BJR because of Claire. But without Claire and her extreme bravery and tenacity, Jamie Fraser’s story ends at Wentworth prison. So, BACK OFF CLAIRE, B!T@H&$!!! OK, I'm just being silly. And it's still ONLY fiction.
Carol and Tracey, thanks again to both of you for making these videos – I know you do it from a love of the books. Please don’t ever feel you have to apologize, ESPECIALLY to Starz, whenever you find something you feel you must take issue with or criticize about the show. More often than not, you will only be expressing what many of us feel as well. Starz, Ron Moore, et. al., should be grateful to have these forums for honest commentary available to them. Hopefully, they will be wise enough to use such resources to keep a finger on the pulse of their fan base.
Carol, to answer your poll of a couple weeks ago, I’m a long-timer and have read all the books, the short stories, The Exile, and The Scottish Prisoner.
Sorry, this is late – and long. Reality has intruded too much in my life lately.
Ron Moore and company have stated that they don't want the sex to become smutty, gratuitous, porn, etc. Even Sam and Cat have stated that they are careful not to let that happen. As far as the gore goes, it's pretty tame compared to GoT,. My option was to not watch GoT anymore because of some of the scenes. I am confident that we can trust the Outlander writers to allow us to keep our sensibilites and still enjoy the all the aspects of the books.
late comment (what can I say - it's a lonely outlanderless weekend) : Regarding the missing parting words that Jamie says to Claire - I agree that it's poignant beat, but it may just have been logistically challenging to put it in. The words are spoken in Gaelic, not intended for BJR's ears. Ron Moore had made a choice not to close caption/subtitle all spoken Gaelic.
Second thought - I went back to read the book and sure enough, Claire efficiently and unhesitatingly kills a soldier in Wentworth while looking for Jamie. I am so sorry that scene is not there. In The Search, Claire's unability to do what's necessary, that is, to kill the messenger while understandable to some degree, makes her compared to Jenny, naive and incapable - how to propose to save your husband, Claire? This missing Wentworth scene would have beautiful paid off in terms of showing what Claire is willing to do now. It is at that moment she becomes, because of love, ruthless and focused. If we didn't have the wolf scene to show to display her steely desperation, we could have used a little red coat death.
Oh, amen to the Claire killing a redcoat comment! I watched Ep.16 last night and was so frustrated that we didn't truly get to witness Claire being as heroic as she is in the book. It was frustrating to watch her play the worried hand-wringer!
Can't wait for your review tomorrow. I thought it was done perfect, even without the wolves. I especially loved the moment when Claire whispers his death date in BJR's ear.Thanks for the fun & enlightenment you bring to us, ladies
ReplyDeleteJaime knew they were looking for him because according to Dougal (I don't remember if it is in the book this way) he got captured when he went to a village looking for the woman who was singing the song...so yeah he could have tried to live a little longer to give them time to find him...Y'all are great by the way! First time watching you :)
ReplyDeleteOoh good point Lisa! Didn't even think of that--JAMMF clearly knew that they knew what had happened to them. So the whole "stall for time" thing definitely makes sense...
DeleteThank you ladies for another wonderful recap! What a tough episode to watch. So well done. I literally flinched with every blow of the hammer. I was surprised where they left off though; I thought they’d get farther along in the story (trying not to give spoilers). Oh, and the thing with the bracelets. IIRC in the book it was introduced much earlier (at Quarter Day) about Murtaugh and Ellen and the bracelets, so it didn’t seem so repetitive. Oh and THANK GOD they didn’t do the wolf scene, but I was glad they included the wolf howl. Hard to wait two weeks for the next episode! Take care all.
ReplyDelete-Lisa D.
I feel the same about the wolf scene. Also, glad the wolf howl was included.
DeleteI loved the bracelets and necklaces, myself. The truth of the bracelets came out a bit later in the story--not so immediately as in Ep. 14.
ReplyDeleteOh, thank you! I must be mis-remembering the sequencing. I recalled something with Murtaugh and Claire on Quarter Day but that may have been a conversation about Mrs. Fitz.
Delete-Lisa D.
In the book, McRannoch recognizes Murtagh and tells the story of the boar hunt and Murtagh being gifted with the tusks. Claire remembers seeing the bracelets at Lallybroch and makes the connection of who the "secret admirer" is.
DeleteI know there is only so much time per episode but all of these little previews are giving too much away. Maybe it's because I'm a reader but I could already see how the rescue will occur. Wasn't it Jamie's right hand that was smashed? I guess we ran out of time on that subject.
ReplyDeleteYes, but they didn't want to put Sam in a position where he had to act left-handed for NINE SEASONS!!!
DeleteOh please let it be nine seasons!! :)
DeleteDitto!
DeleteNine, and more. Diana just needs to keep them coming, and Starz continue with the movies!
DeleteAuntie Lamb here -
ReplyDeleteLove you guys. (Shortest video ever?? Not so much) There was never a time when we Outlander nuts needed to take care of each other MORE.
I want to make the observation that Sam Heughan owned this episode. With all due respect to Tobias and his over-the-top perverted weirdness, I felt that Sam's restrained anger, his contorted desperation, his controlled heroism -- they ruled every scene he was in. That single tear... that parting scene with Claire...the moments with McQuarrie...the watchfulness,,,all FANTASTIC. I heard someone say once on Inside the Actors Studio that the hardest thing to do as an actor was to be still. Sam (and to some extent Cait) did more by being still than all of Tobias' twitching, mustache-twirling villainy. And remember who was the motivation behind all of BJR's behavior ... Of course, all the credit and notices will go to Tobias --- meh! As I said last week, I have gotten so tired of the shtick (and it really is kind of one-note). In the podcast, Ira Behr made the point that Tobias contributed much of Jack's performance. I think the reason for this is that Tobias really IS, or really wants us to THINK he is, One. Sick. F*ck. I'll drink to that.
The Redcoat "clerks": did you notice that the one left a big inkblotch on McQuarrie's death warrant AFTER the speech about pasty-faced Redcoats prior to his hanging. Very subtle, but telling.
I noticed in this ep that Jamie crossed himself with his right hand. In the past he did it with his left. I am not a Catholic, so I don't know. Is there any significance to this?
SAWNY was def in the personal effects, along with a Fraser brooch and some fishing line.
I SO LOVE MURTAGH. THERE ARE NO WORDS.
Ira Behr made the point that in depicting Marley they had to be careful of not making the character look deformed, developmentally disabled, or in any way "handicapped," so as not to bring down criticism from advocacy groups.
I told you the petition would come back to bite Jamie in the ass --- thank God Murtagh gets him in the end. Can't happen too soon. Hope they show it.
I'm gonna take a break. Maybe later.
Auntie
I love Murtaugh too. He can say so much with one twitch of his eyebrows.
Delete-Lisa D.
Really well said re: the stillness being a difficult thing as an actor--it's probably the best advice I ever got from a director. Movement "weakens"--in being still, the character projects much more strength. But so difficult!
DeleteCarol - your Thomas Harris comment - hysterical! ("Yes, Clarice?") Tracey - thank you for saying, "is this really necessary to see?" agree, agree.
ReplyDeleteHere's my dumb question: what do you mean by Easter egg?
I think Easter Egg is something that foreshadows what is to come. Sometimes it's something with a hidden meaning, or it could be a nod to something else. For example, in the episode titled The Watch, at the very beginning of the episode they showed the MacQuarrie's watch lying on the ground all bent-up. In Ep. 15 it was the "chandelier of pain" as Tracey called it, foreshadowing the torture that is to come.
DeleteWe call them Easter eggs because they're like those little extras that programmers throw into apps--no one may ever even see them or think about them except whoever created the app, but it definitely has extra meaning.
DeleteOh, one more thing, I loved Willie at the end! Standing up, strapping on his guns and saying well, no help from this guy, let's not dilly dally any longer and just get on with it!
ReplyDeleteHow about the redcoat pulling down on McQuarry's legs to hurry the process along? UGH UGH UGH gruesome. A "good hanging" is quick - the knot is supposed to break the person's neck - if something goes wrong they just have to hang there and strangle. Shudder.
ReplyDeleteI agree, as much as I was horrified by BJR and his behavior, the hangman's assistant dragging on the thrashing body was the worst thing in this episode.
DeleteThanks again ladies for a fab recap! Really need to read the books! Did you notice the actor Fraser Hines,playing Sir Fletcher Gordon from Dr Who. Didn't Diana take his character to create James Fraser?! It was a long time ago, late 1960's I think. Keep up the great show. Love it! Thanks
ReplyDelete^^ yes, you are correct! They talked about that on the podcast. Very cool.
DeleteAuntie is Back --
ReplyDeleteSorry. You know how much I love you guys, BUT -- Carol, I'm not good with hearing that Jamie (or Claire) are in any way to blame for what happens to themselves. You would not say that about a random female victim of kidnapping or rape. You just wouldn't. It was not up to Jamie to play "Survivor" (outwit, outplay, out-whatever) with BJR. None of this is/was Jamie's fault or under his control.
Jamie understands that BJR is gonna mess with him (remember he said to Claire that BJR likes to "play with his toys") right up until the moment the Redcoats hang him or until BJR accidentally kills him. Recall that Jamie says to him -- YOU'RE the one who sees ME in his dreams. Jamie's got BJR's number, absolutely.
The key to Jamie is not that he isn't terrified -- he IS terrified. He knows that being buggered is the least of what he faces. When BJR talks about getting Jamie's "surrender," he means way more than just f*cking Jamie. He wants Jamie's soul. He wants Jamie to respond to him the way he responds to Claire: he wants Jamie to see him in his dreams. For the rest of his life. Jamie is BJR's white whale; BJR wants to become Jamie's white whale. The key to Jamie is not that he doesn't feel terror; the key is that he DOES feel it and that he CONTROLS the fear. That's a way bigger thing than just letting your freak flag fly, and it's a way bigger challenge for an actor.
We don't see Jamie's hand mashed in the book; we do see the hand nailed to the table.
I think BJR cannot stop Jamie's execution, and he wouldn't try. The book further makes the point that BJR can't torture Jamie beyond the point where Jamie can't walk onto the scaffold under his own power; because if Jamie can't do that, questions will be raised that might blow back on BJR, and he definitely does not want that. He's afraid of repercussions to his career. He makes that clear over his reactions to Jamie's petition in the show.
In the book Jamie tells Claire in Gaelic: "He (BJR) thinks you are powerless; I know you are not." Then he says, "I love you." In English. I think he does expect Claire to keep trying to get him out, but more immediately, he wants to save her from BJR.
Claire temporarily succumbs to despair in the face of seeing Jamie brought low in the prison. But then she regroups and is all about -- how do we get Jamie out?? Sooner rather than later.
How does Claire not suffer broken legs after that fall out of the prison?? Fighting off the wolves with her hands might have been easier in the winter when Claire was wearing gloves, which is when the book action takes place.
A couple more things when I come back ...
Auntie
"For the rest of his life. Jamie is BJR's white whale; BJR wants to become Jamie's white whale. "
Delete^^^^^THIS. BRILLS. PUT IT ON A T-SHIRT.^^^^^^^
Why did Claire not tell Jamie she loved him too? Of course he knows she does, but, it would be a nice thing to hear as he faces torture and death!
ReplyDeleteAuntie Again --
ReplyDeleteA few final things - God, I hate me.
No, that was BJR's knife/dagger he cut Jamie's shirt with. Same one he had when he beat Jamie at Lallybroch (the one Jamie thought BJR was going to use to slit his throat); same one he was menacing Claire with at Ft. William. BJR seems to like that knife for some disturbing reasons: phallic-substitute, much???
Remember, as BJR is about to pound the nail into Jamie's hand, he says, "I haven't even begun," or words to that effect. We know it's gonna get worse. What it and his later comment ("Let's begin") reminded me of is the scene in "The Silence of the Lambs" when Lecter is about to go eat the prison guards and says "I'm coming, officer."
Even Sam made the point that he and Tobias could hardly speak to each other off set during the Wentworth scenes. And he mentioned someplace else that the makeup/prosthetics people had to work overtime to do his back (many times in many ways), his hand (apparently that was both makeup and at other times an entire prosthetic hand), his LEGS, AND his head (!?) before they were through.
Sadly, I think NO WAY any of the actors get Emmy noms (sad but true); although both the NY Times and the Wall Street Journal mentioned all of them in that light in their rave reviews of this episode. Someone - I forget who - entitled their review of this episode, "Have fun storming the castle!" a la "The Princess Bride."
OK, I'm done. Love ya. See you at the MOP CHAT!
Auntie
Hi Tracey and Carol.....
ReplyDeleteI have some Easter Egg thoughts in regard to the "torture mask." Jamie, Claire and BJR all wore masks in this episode. Claire's was evident when she was in Sir Fletcher's office hiding who she really was and her mask came off when he left the room. She was being tortured having to pretend to be on a good deed mission while her whole being is screaming inside. BJR's mask is how he presents himself to the whole world....except for when he is looking at Jamie--totally different face on him...only time he shows feelings (as sick as they are) is when he is looking at Jamie. We already realize that he is a tortured being, (won't use the word human). And, well.... this could just be Sam, but the way his facial expression changed from calm determination in front of BJR to TOTAL FEAR as soon as BJR would walk behind him. Also, internal torture going on trying not to let BJR see what he is thinking and feeling.
Loved your video....as usual....never too long for me.
But I disagree with a little thing you guys said early in video when BJR rides in like the Long Ranger. You stated that It is not his doing that Jamie is in Wentworth....but is that right? Isn't HE responsible for the price on Jamie's head because HE killed the redcoat and set Jamie up for it? Isn't BJR the MAIN reason Jamie is an outlaw int he first place, going all the way back to the first time at Lallybroch?
Have a wonderful week off....regretting the season ending....not only will I be suffering from Droughtlander again...but also MOP withdrawals.
Love your thoughts about the masks. In the books Claire repeatedly points out the "mask" that Jamie wears to cover his true feelings. Verra interesting observation!
DeleteHi all!
ReplyDeleteI was very scared for this episode...the hype last week was crazy! I was expecting it to be worse and held my breath through much of it in anticipation. I had to calm down and watch it again to process it. I thought they handled the episode well and that it was about all I could deal with in one hour. I'm glad they didn't show more of the nasty but I'm thinking that's coming next episode. I'm impressed with how closely they are following the book. These are a few thoughts...
LOVED when Murtagh picked up Claire and carried her away from Wentworth. He was my hero in that moment.
The shot right after Claire tells Randall his death date was amazing...their silhouettes with flames in the background (flames Claire came close to burning by) Wow!
For me the creepiest, most awfully cringe worthy scene was when Jamie is cradling his ruined hand, barely conscious, and Black Jack is using his good hand to rub himself. That may be the most disturbing thing I've ever seen. The look on Jamie's face...ugh...can't go there. My heart hurts :(
I was absurdly excited when I heard cows mooing! (Not a phrase you use every day!)
SPOILER ALERT FOR SEASON 2. As I watched this episode the second time, all I could think was...how in the hell could Claire ask Jamie not to kill Black Jack? I know the reasoning for this and when reading the book it was somehow easier to believe. But SEEING what happened is a game changer for me. No way, no how. That man needs to die and damn the consequences. I guess it's time to reread DIA. Maybe I'll answer my own question LOL.
Thanks for the recap! I'd say it's going to be a long two weeks, but my son graduates from high school next weekend so I know it won't...have a feeling it's going to fly by for me! Take care!
Having recently read the books for the.....ehm...15th time, it is more fresh in my mind and the reason why BJR cannot die according to Claire is because Frank will not be born then and history will be changed - spoiler alert - because at the time she thought that BJR was Franks forefather and did not even know about his brother that was the real forefather.
DeleteI too recently reread the books. In light of what we've seen in this episode, I don't know how Claire can - SPOILER ALERT - go back to Frank and see BJR's face looking at her all the time. Would make me sick. Also, I am curious why there was no mention of Alex MacGregor, one of BJR's earlier victims and one of the reasons Jamie knows what BJ is capable of. In my mind at least Alex has resonance in the books (through his bible) and BJ's mention of the name.
DeleteHeather, I'm with you on this. Didn't like it in the book, won't like it if they do it the same way in the show. Excuse the pun, but Claire didn't know JACK about whether it would change things in the future or not. She did that based on what MIGHT have happened. And it was the WAY she did it, followed by her blaming Jamie for what followed that made me HATE her for the rest of the series. I barely TOLERATED her for six books. If Ron & Co want to change something, here's a change that would make a lot of people happy. I LOVE Balfe's Claire, I'd really hate to see that change.
DeleteHi Heather -- Auntie Lamb here -
ReplyDeleteSPOILERS
One of my ongoing problems with the character of Claire in the books is her slavish loyalty to All Things Frank. This begins, as you rightly point out, with her plea to Jamie not to kill BJR when the chance presents itself in DIA; and it continues in other ways through all the books. In the process it causes more heartache for Claire, Jamie, and their nearest and dearest. All this despite the fact that Frank HIMSELF (forget any connection to BJR) eventually proves to be far from the blameless innocent Claire believes him to be. Big gripe of mine, followed closely by Jamie's own hard-to-fathom duty to yet another loathesome character. Those of you who have read the books know who I mean.
AL
I wanted to throw that d@mn gold ring in the kitchen disposal!
DeleteFrom Auntie -
DeleteWord. Totally.
Ditto, ditto. She is being "loyal" to a cheat. Everyone but Claire knows that Frank wasn't faithful to her during the war. Maybe she loves who she thinks Frank is in her imagination. Wouldn't be the first wife to do that ...
DeleteSuper comments all around. I found myself reading and mumbling, "yep, yep, uh huh, agree...exactly!" Its like going to a wonderful book club ( tv show club??) without getting in the car!
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I can add is how profoundly the music score moved me. Bear McCreary has very specific musical passages that you listen for and enjoy with different moods and characters. This entire episode was haunting, sad and heartbreakingly beautiful.
I totally agree with Carol on her comments about Sam's portrayal as Jamie. It is truly uncanny as you said. He really should get recognized for this but Im not so sure the emmy people have even read this series to get what we have observed.
ReplyDeleteFeeling much better after watching your recap. MOP is gentian ointment for the festering wound that is Wentworth Prison.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't watch it! I watched your recap...LOVED! And the episode happened to be on, so I clicked over and it was the part where BJR was touching J's back and J cried the tear...OMG! I switched channels! I will eventually watch it, but not yet.... As Tracey stated, I'm questioning whether I will find this entertaining....
ReplyDeleteBTW~ Great recap and great comments....maybe this will be enough for me! And my reaction to this is so peculiar (and somewhat perplexing) since I've read the books and know how what's going to happen! LOL!
Did anyone notice BJR shhh Jamie the same way Jamie had to shhh Claire for her own protection BJR was doing the same for Jamie ugh! Just hard to watch and Carol BJR cut Jamie's shirt with the same knife he held against Claire's throat and chest when Jamie went to rescue her it was large but not scissors. Loved the review as always next week is going to be hard for sure. When BJR touched Claire and wiped sweat off her lip saying "sweat of exertion bravo" I need therapy for sure I do not drink but this show will drive me to for sure. Goodness.
ReplyDeleteRather than enjoyable, a better word might be engaging, or riveting, or fascinating, like a cobra. Did they show too much - maybe. But to tear our guts out so thoroughly intensifies the knitting of them together that much more.
ReplyDeleteAnd as I said before 115, I will say again for 116: Where are we going? Why are we all in these hand-baskets??
After I watched this episode, I had to go read part of Voyager that I have loved. (No spoilers) in order to get the scenes out of my mind. Ugh! Tobias always nails the (no pun intended) sociopath BJR perfectly. UGH!
ReplyDeleteI know this is late, and no one may read it (that might not be bad), but I’ll go ahead and do my share of shouting into the void (aka internet) anyway.
ReplyDeleteTracey and Carol,
I haven’t commented since the second half of the season began, mainly because the first couple of episodes after the break left me a bit nervous about how graphic the show might eventually become. I was afraid I might be out of step with today’s sensibilities and perhaps come across as prudish. However, Tracey’s “Do we need to see this?” comments regarding Jamie’s hand in this recap exactly echoed many of my worries. Although Outlander is an excellent story that both sexes can equally enjoy, traditionally, it has had a very large female fan base. As a woman, I am much more comfortable reading about violence and/or sex than watching prolonged graphic representations of them. Particularly where sex is concerned, the appeal to women tends to be much more cerebral than visual.
As I did not grow up in a time where internet porn and graphic television shows and movies were so easily accessible, I wonder if perhaps I just don’t get it. I also worry that the success (completely inexplicable to me) of the Fifty Shades books will lead male producers and writers to think that NOW they understand what women want! But my greatest fear is that some silent majority will quietly begin to abandon this show if it becomes too graphic. I love the show, and the last several episodes have helped renew my faith. I don’t take issue with a degree of realism (Jenny’s milking scene, for example, no problem), I just don’t want to see this show step too close to the lines of porn and gore. The story, the production, the writing, and the acting are all too good to sacrifice to overly sensational visuals, added merely to attract the attention of viewers with no imaginations. Just my two cents.
To those who commented about Claire assuming that she would be saving Frank by letting BJR live, just remember that Claire doesn’t understand (any more than we do) how Gabaldon’s time travel thing works. As intelligent as Claire is, it would be reasonable to assume that she has spent a lot of time thinking about it. One major point to consider: WITHOUT FRANK, CLAIRE HAS NO REASON TO EVER BE IN SCOTLAND IN THE FIRST PLACE. For all Claire knows, if she ends Frank’s possible existence, she ends her own possibility of ever going back in time to meet Jamie.
I can’t join the Claire-bashers. This first book is a flipped epic where it is the woman who is the ultimate hero. Yes, Claire makes mistakes and we women all love Jamie Fraser. Yes, Jamie is courageous, strong, loyal, intelligent, and supremely lovable. However, Jamie isn’t a wanted man because of Claire. He isn’t a target of BJR because of Claire. But without Claire and her extreme bravery and tenacity, Jamie Fraser’s story ends at Wentworth prison. So, BACK OFF CLAIRE, B!T@H&$!!! OK, I'm just being silly. And it's still ONLY fiction.
Carol and Tracey, thanks again to both of you for making these videos – I know you do it from a love of the books. Please don’t ever feel you have to apologize, ESPECIALLY to Starz, whenever you find something you feel you must take issue with or criticize about the show. More often than not, you will only be expressing what many of us feel as well. Starz, Ron Moore, et. al., should be grateful to have these forums for honest commentary available to them. Hopefully, they will be wise enough to use such resources to keep a finger on the pulse of their fan base.
Carol, to answer your poll of a couple weeks ago, I’m a long-timer and have read all the books, the short stories, The Exile, and The Scottish Prisoner.
Sorry, this is late – and long. Reality has intruded too much in my life lately.
Dolittle
Ron Moore and company have stated that they don't want the sex to become smutty, gratuitous, porn, etc. Even Sam and Cat have stated that they are careful not to let that happen. As far as the gore goes, it's pretty tame compared to GoT,. My option was to not watch GoT anymore because of some of the scenes. I am confident that we can trust the Outlander writers to allow us to keep our sensibilites and still enjoy the all the aspects of the books.
Deletelate comment (what can I say - it's a lonely outlanderless weekend) : Regarding the missing parting words that Jamie says to Claire - I agree that it's poignant beat, but it may just have been logistically challenging to put it in. The words are spoken in Gaelic, not intended for BJR's ears. Ron Moore had made a choice not to close caption/subtitle all spoken Gaelic.
ReplyDeleteSecond thought - I went back to read the book and sure enough, Claire efficiently and unhesitatingly kills a soldier in Wentworth while looking for Jamie. I am so sorry that scene is not there. In The Search, Claire's unability to do what's necessary, that is, to kill the messenger while understandable to some degree, makes her compared to Jenny, naive and incapable - how to propose to save your husband, Claire? This missing Wentworth scene would have beautiful paid off in terms of showing what Claire is willing to do now. It is at that moment she becomes, because of love, ruthless and focused. If we didn't have the wolf scene to show to display her steely desperation, we could have used a little red coat death.
Oh, amen to the Claire killing a redcoat comment! I watched Ep.16 last night and was so frustrated that we didn't truly get to witness Claire being as heroic as she is in the book. It was frustrating to watch her play the worried hand-wringer!
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