Thanks again for another review! About Brianna - I thought book Brianna was a very bratty annoying 20-year old know-it-all. I didn't like her at all until she grew up a bit (book 4 or 5 if I remember). I thought Sophie Skelton did a great job of conveying this in this episode. She was as annoying as her book version. Her American accent was fine, but coming from 1968 I would have thought she might have used some of the youth vernacular at the time, like - groovy, cool, far-out, yeah man, can you dig it? After all, she went to school at MIT which was a hotbed of counterculture at the time. Also bellbottoms and/or miniskirt? I grew up in that era - loved the music in the episode.
Also I loved Claire's Jackie O hairdo and glasses.
Thank you. I have been over and over that in my mind, Lone Star. Wouldn't Frank's relatives know about her disappearing with the fairies...and then they moved to the US when she showed up again. And they know how old Bree is. It just doesn't seem like she would have had a great relationship with them. Oh well. Suspension of disbelief! :)
I loved the season finale and I'm psyched that we have a 2 hour recap to look forward to:) About Claire helping Jamie... I didn't care for that. All season I've been complaining about TV Jamie being robbed. I didn't feel that strongly about this incident, but I did get a flash of "OMG, just let the man murder in peace, he's 6'-3", 200+ lbs, a soldier, young- he can take Dougal"! I think they did it to show that Claire making good on her promise to help Jamie kill, if necessary. They didn't get BJR, but they got Dougal. The BJR/ Frank/ Mary thing wrapped, perhaps Claire wanted to express that commitment to their family, to Jamie.
I wonder if Claire stepped in because Jamie was stabbing Dougal with the hand that BJR smashed. It may have been weakened enough that Claire needed to help him.
I read that the original plan was to have Claire kill him, but that Starz said no. Thank goodness! Geez, Gabaldon knows these characters better than anyone and take years to write these scenes, but then they make some stupid changes based on whims (e.g., Laoghaire). Hey, maybe they should hire DG as a consultant! And actually consult her, too!
Here are my initial thoughts after watching the finale:
It was the cheesiness ending ever ... especially with light radiating out of the rocks and Claire's fluttering eyes. What was up with that??? I'm surprised you guys didn't talk about that at all! So weird!!!
... And I'm sorry... I thought Bree was not bratty enough. I wanted to yell, "Cut! Let's do it again and this time with a little more attitude girl"! I thought her acting was kind of flat like in Twilight. I loved the Twilight books and yes the actors look just like how they were described in the books ... But boy their acting really sucked. I just hope over time Sophie has a little more emotion in her voice. Sorry... I know not everyone will agree.
I absolutely loved Roger!!! He will be wonderful! He has always been one of my favorites.
I think at the rocks Jamie knew Claire would not go unless he made her. That's why he did the very gentle "dance" towards the head stone. The look on Jamie's face with the tears on face at the very end when he was slowly putting her hand on the stone is when I broke down... So heart wrenching.
Luanne, I agree about a lot of what you've said. Sometimes I don't talk about things because of my "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" policy. LOL! I will dig up my texts to Tracey and see if there is anything about the wondrous golden light emanating from the stones. Oy vey. I thought it was a bit overdone...like Jesus was going to walk through them. But...then again...maybe that's the effect they were going for?
You two are a SCREAM - Carol, honey, I am SO with you! Isn't it amazing how both the book and the series can wrench our hearts! (I cant believe that I'm sobbing along with a blog!!)
In my dreams, season 3 will open with a flashback to the cottage loving, enough to last them 20 years. (RDM owes us a grotto scene too!!)
When we gripe about Droughlander, just think: J and C - now THAT'S a 20 year Droughtlander!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG Peigi...I couldn't believe I was crying on camera!! LOL!! LOVE your dream flashback. And I TOTALLY agree on the grotto scene. I really feel like we were left a bit unsatisfied in the "loving" department this season. 😐
Great review. I agree with just about everything you said, though I don't think you mentioned at the ending when Bree says "I believe you...." This was the same dialogue as what Jamie said to Clare after Craigsmuire. That is where I grabbed for the hanky. Growing up in the 60's I loved the music played from that era and right away I told my daughter that Clare's hair is the Jackie O hairdo. I agreed with Peigi that the need to start off next season with flashback of the cottage action. Tracy great catch on the book 'mark me' I am still laughing. I do hope you have another show before we part into droutlander. Thanks.
There were two other instances of this. Gillian asks Bri, "Why are you here?" in just the same tone that Geillis asks Claire at the witch trial. Then, when Geillis was going through the stones and Roger yells that something smells like a f...ing barbecue. Same comment by Geillis at the witch trial.
So much good going on here! Thank you Carol and Tracy! I thought this finale was Spectacular. Grabbed me by the heart and wounded me. The swelling had just gone down in my eyes and here you guys got me going again.
Thought all of the 60s stuff - the hair, the clothes, the music, Claire's Jamie-Fraser-Cats-Eye glasses - were totally groovy. Claire was so incredibly beautiful. I was apprehensive about Rankin as Roger, especially with the beard, but from the moment I saw him standing there with tears of grief pooling in his eyes - he had me and he never let me go. I thought it was GENIUS to bring the Rev's wake into play. It not only gave Roger immediate emotional depth but it also gave him something in common to share with Claire and Bree, to allow him to empathize with these two women, to understand what they were going through enough to help them and to serve as a voice of calm reason in the midst of the chaos they suddenly found themselves in.
Cait played her role to perfection, delivering a sense of the utter emotional vacuum that she had been existing in for the past 20 years. The deadness in her voice and expression when she spoke of Frank and how her entire being lit up when she spoke of Jamie. And Bree saw it, too, struggled with it through the whole episode.
I like Sophie's Bree so much better than book Bree. I know she comes off bratty, but how would one expect her to feel, finding out that her mom left her beloved Daddy (who she just recently lost) for three years and got herself pregnant by another man and kept it a secret all her life? Did anyone expect she would actually believe the fairy tale Claire was telling? That moment at the end when she tells her mom that she believed - using the same words that Jamie used when he first found out - was priceless.
Claire's scenes at Lallybrock and Culloden had me bawling out loud. When she reached her hand up to touch her lips while hearing "Then let amorous kisses dwell On our lips, begin and tell A Thousand and a Hundred score A Hundred, and a Thousand more", then looked up and saw Jamie standing there - OMG! So heart rending! And although I could have done without all of the mud, that final scene between J&C was devastating! When he guided her hand to the stone, with that tear flowing down his face I totally lost it.
Carol, I don't care for the use of the f-word either, but Claire uses it quite freely and I'm not surprised that Bree picked it up. In this case, I was OK with it because it was being used specifically to make the distinction between making love and vulgar sex. And it caused "He was the love of my life!" to explode from Claire for the first time in 20 long years. It brought the hair up on my arms. If you check out the look on Roger's face, standing over there by the whisky decanter - I think that's when he first started to believe.
I thought they did a great job encapsulating the whole Gillian/Geillis story. I especially liked that we heard her voice before we actually got our first glimpse of her. Great direction! I agree,the way they did her relationship with Bree was masterful.
I know that a lot of people thought the ending was corny but, to steal a favorite line from The Holiday, "I like corny. I'm looking for corny in my life." The dawn actually does arrive that fast, especially in mountainous areas. And also remember that henges are specifically designed so that they are perfectly aligned with the sunrise/sunset on the solstices.
I am totally with you. You have expressed my thoughts. The scene of Jamie bathed in golden light under the arch of Lallybroch was sublime. In Claire's eyes he would remain forever young and beautiful and wrapped in plaid - an image of a bygone time and extinct lifestyle. The same golden light appears at the end and bathes Claire's face, transforming her from the cold and dark without Jamie to the warmth and light of the promise of his embrace once more. Too, too beautiful.
Thank you for the recap ladies I watch all of your videos and MOP chat when I can for over a year now and you never disappoint. Even though season 2 at times did disappoint me, as a whole I really enjoyed it and esp the last half of the season I loved and I can't say enough that I'm looking forward to season 3, Voyager is my second favorite book in the series. I have really high hopes for it and I think that Cait and Sam will knock it out of the park but in the end it all depends on the new writers coming on and what they do creatively. Take care everyone ��
I had two thoughts about the color and light at the ending. First, when Dorothy came out of her house after it landed on the witch, it went from black and white to color. She was entering a new adventure. Secondly, I had a friend who was a recovering alcoholic. He told me living without alcohol ( his mistress) was like living in black and white. It was all in color when he was with his true love-the bottle. Now I know that it a little far fetched but it's what I thought of.
Loved your recap, and LOVED this finale beyond belief! I recently wrote that if we did not get the night in the cottage, the sex, sex, and up against-the-wall-one-last-time-cuz-the-Redcoats-are-comin' sex, I would be bitterly disappointed. I'm happy to say that was not the case, for me anyway. The minute-by-minute 24 style countdown of the battle preparations gave the illusion of urgency, as did their wild ride, two-thrust (Louis came to mind, but only a smidge) coupling, and Jamie's backward dance with her to the stones. I did miss the J and C, but the amber and Brian's ring definitely sufficed in my mind.
I can't say much about Claire's participation in Dougal's death. I don't know why, but it did not bother me one way or the other. As Carol noted, perhaps she, in true Claire character, was just making sure the job got done, or that she did not want Jamie to bear the burden alone. (I hope I'm not confusing which one of you was ok with it).
As for Lotte's name in the beginning credits, I didn't notice, but if I had, I wouldn't have been spoiled, because she did play an important part at the end of the book. Their portrayal of Geillis, by the way, was brilliant, in my opinion. Non-book readers may not quite have understood her passion for Scotland, and her obsession with BPC without that scene of her at the rally. I also liked the condensed version of how Claire found her, and was able to swipe her notebooks, etc. That was a two or three day process, involving several stops, Roger's assistance, etc., etc., in the book, and I really like how they compressed it, all while adding to it even.
I should take Tracey's lead and make organized notes while watching you two, because my mental notes of what I want to discuss seem to leave my brain! Hah! But I look forward to seeing you some during Droughtlander.
Oh, and Mark Me, I won't let you forget... I am a 16'er!
I forgot to add this in my above comment - my husband has never read one word of any Outlander book; however, he has had many passages read TO him, by me, in the past 10-12 years. (I was late to the OL party). So, he was familiar with the story and the characters, and looked forward to the Starz series.
We have had some happy OL moments over the past two seasons. We have two restaurants, and usually work late on Saturday nights - at separate places. I'm the first to arrive home most times, but I wait for him. No matter how late, he always says, "Let's watch Outlander!" But I think my happiest moments came during the season 2 finale when several times he said, "This is really good!" The BEST was after it was over, he asked me to fill him in on what comes next in Voyager. Smile - cuz you hate to be that boring nerd who thinks everyone wil find it as fascinating as you do! Had to share
I liked most of this episode but I am just thunder struck that Claire joined in and pushed the knife into Dougal! What the .... I think once again this show felt the need to knock Jamie down a peg and this was a way to do by letting Claire do the killing. For crying out loud what the heck happened to our BIG Strong Scotts Warrior! He was all but turned into a school boy this season. I loved many things about this episode and cried along with others as Jamie took Claire back to the stones but I can not find the big, loveable, strong, good MAN that Jamie is in the book. I will need Droughtlander to get my Outlander mo-jo back. I have my kindle open to the fight scene and it was perfect in the book .... so sad they changed it.
Claire is also not the Claire I grew to love either. sniff...
I HATED that change. He is her warrior! He can do things by himself, especially kill Dougal. They take away Jamie's lines, his ideas, his moments. It's SO about Claire that she seems like his mother sometimes! Always scowling and taking charge. UGH! Ok. Rant over. 😩
I'm with ya, Brandy!!! Jamie needs an entire episode dedicated to him - by himself - to make up for all the times the spotlight has been snatched away from him!
I'm still not sure what to make of Claire being involved with Dougal's death, but it feels unnecessary to have her joining in. I've felt more than once throughout both seasons that things are a little heavy-handed with the female empowerment - especially when it has resulted (more than once, also) in the diminishment of Jamie's character.
And Carol, I understood SO WELL what you were trying to articulate about what a *good* man Jamie is. I've seen many comments about how the mere name, Jamie Fraser, will prompt weeping. And criminy, does Sam portray the hell out of that man. T_T
Agree 100% Why does the show feel the need to minimize Jamie? They have a more than capable actor in the role. Season 1, his berzerk 3 on 1 brawl turned into a group brawl ... while he was outside. Season 2, Murtagh confronts BJR with Claire not Jamie, Claire gives him the out with Lord John, Claire helps to kill Dougal, Claire even suggests naming the baby Brian. WTF? What's the purpose? To show that he's younger than Claire? I miss the "tension" in their relationship that comes from him being a man from the 1740's and her being a woman from the 1940's. Some of their best conversations revolve around their ideas about their respective identities/ roles in the world. Book Jamie would definitely not been down with pregnant Claire getting involved in a fight. It would have killed his pride. TV Jamie is so modernly "safe". Will he grow into "book Jamie" next season? He has to evolve...I'm dying to see badass Jamie.
Loved Fergus as portrayed in the show but question if Claire and Jamie truly loved him like their own son wouldn't they at least have tried to have Claire take him back with her to keep their "son" safe? hm?
Carol and Tracey, great recap! The Mary Tyler Moore Show reference really made me laugh. I love the references you make during your recaps. I hope you do another video reviewing the whole season 2. Thanks for the chuckles.
Regarding Claire helping Jamie stab Dougal, here are my two cents for what they are worth. Dougal made it very very clear that he intended to kill them both. While Jamie and Dougal were in a fast paced fight there wasn't anything Claire could do but watch these two large strong men go at it. But when they were on the floor struggling for the knife and it really came down to who was more desperate, who was more weak from hunger, who was more determined to get the job done...well, if it was me watching my husband struggle for his life and wondering if Dougal might get one last burst of determination, there is no way I wouldn't have done exactly what Claire did whether he needed me to or not. And let's be clear, if Dougal had killed Jamie, Claire would have been next. So again, it wasn't murder, it was self defense on both their parts.
I too felt very cheated by the way too brief love making scene by the stones. I just feel like they cut out so many romantic scenes between Jamie and Claire that they really owed it to the audience to get this one right. It really doesn't seem like they would have had to change the timeline all that much to work that out either. Still, I actually really loved Jamie moving Claire toward the stones. It was like he realized just what a difficult thing it was that he was asking of her. As he said in the book, he was asking her to rip out her own heart and live without it. So he was trying to lessen the burden for her by giving her no choice. So many tears!
As for Brianna and Claire's 1960's look: I was able to accept that Brianna was not as tall as she is in the book pretty quickly, still it felt very lazy too me that they didn't at least put Sophie Skelton in shoes that would make her as tall as Caitriona Balfe. When they were arguing and Claire was looking down toward Brianna it did really bother me.
My biggest issue, however, which actually made me have to watch the episode again because I couldn't stop thinking about it the first time was the ugly gray streaks in Claire's hair. Maybe that is really shallow, and there was so much that was so great about Claire's look, but I wanted to shake whoever put in her hair what you so hilariously referred too as Cruella Deville streaks and scream "Read the book"! Claire is not supposed to have very noticeable gray hair. Several characters mention her youthful appearance. One character even says that although they know logically that she must be at least 40 (she is actually quite a bit older than that) she doesn't look it with only a few fine lines near her eyes and a small amount of gray threading in her hair. So basically, she is supposed to look about the age Caitriona Blafe actually is. I always thought that was Diana Gabaldon's little consolation prize to readers upset that Jamie and Claire missed out on spending most of their young adult lives together. At least they are the type to maintain their youthful appearance.
Please Ron, get rid of the streaks and find some logical way to explain it away. Maybe she had added those streaks in to make herself appear more distinguished to the hospital staff. Maybe she finds an effective and natural way to color her hair that works even in the 1700's...and on a ship. But please do not make us look at those ugly streaks during reunion sex between Jamie and Claire! Nobody wants to see that and I say that as a woman in my 40s!
The "determination" thing is a good point. But would it have really been on Dougal's side? Dougal has nothing to lose really. He's hangry, true. But Jamie, at that point, knows that his wife is pregnant. He knows that he has to get her and his only child to safety. Dougal obviously thinks that she's led Jamie astray. He offers Jamie a "quick" death... what did he plan for Claire? Jamie would have killed Dougal to protect Claire before Claire even knew what was happening. It seemed out of character for him to need help in that situation.
I see where you are coming from and I don't think Jamie actually needed Claire's help either. He would have gotten the job done himself. I do think, however, that Claire felt the need to help Jamie. She knew that his hand was cut and his other hand was crippled, Dougal was clearly in a rage and Jamie didn't really want his uncle dead. I think it would have been out of character for Claire to just stand aside and do nothing to help if she thought she could. I also agree with Carol that she would not want Jamie to carry that burden of guilt alone. Jamie is not exactly the kind of man to take killing someone lightly. He didn't even kill Black Jack when he had the chance while breaking Claire out of Fort William, even after seeing how Black Jack was threatening her life and honor. This was his uncle. It was as much an emotional battle for Jamie as a physical one. I think Claire would recognize that and want to help. - Diane
Carol! Now YOU are making me cry. Hope you have recovered :-) Thank you for another amazing season of recaps!!! Love you two and the feels you bring to your videos. Please add some posts during Droughtlander. Voyager read along maybe? Enjoy the rest of your summers!
I haven't watched that part of the video yet, Miss Marlu. I am afraid! LOL! And we will definitely be making some videos during Droughtlander...so YOU should be afraid, too! Ha! 😘
Hey, ooohhh Droughtlander. I kinda liked that Claire wasn't just waiting to watch the fight finish and helped Jamie kill Dougal. The light at the end was a bit bright, but it was Samhain so the sun should have had some special effect with the centre stone. My big take away is how much I love Roger. He stole most of his scenes. My big hope is that the next season shows Randall being killed, cuz it's a bit of a Chekov's gun and my husband will be p.o.ed if he doesn't get his justice.
By the time I watched your recap I had already viewed it 7 times. I would never describe Clair's tiny gray streaks as "Cruella Deville', but get why some are bothered by them. I understand that there was too much to cram into this episode, and we lost the night in the croft - but pray that Claire and Jamie's reunion in Voyager will make up for it (even though their lovemaking as they make their way back to other might be tentative at first - they will likely make up for 20 years apart, as quickly as they can.) I loved every freakin' minute of it, but noticed that one of the trailers on Starz website showed them being pursued and shot at by Redcoats - and wonder why that was included if it was never in the final version of the finale. And, Carol - there is no need to apologize about bursting into tears and having difficulty controlling it. We ALL get it, and love you all the more for it. I am kind of shocked that I wasn't blubbering away myself - but in my 7th viewing there are still scenes that make me tear up every time. I look forward to your season recap.
Hi Ladies, Great podcast on Episode 13. So sad. I cried when you did, Carol, during your podcast. Carol, I have a TURN connection. I saw Nick Westrate, who plays Robert Townsend, in a movie with another Jersey girl, Meryl Streep, called "Ricki and the Flash." He plays her son. Very different role, but fun to see. Looking forward to Season 3 with you ladies!
Did anyone notice the major mistake in the beginning when Claire introduced Bree to Roger as a "history major at Harvard"? Harvard didn't admit women until 1977.
So, you're gonna believe wikipedia over Racliffe-Harvard? Did you even follow the link and read what's there? Your response kind of indicates that you didn't.
What exactly did you want me to read in your link? Radcliffe was the women's college. Harvard was the men's. In 1977 it was merged. Brianna would have gone to Radcliffe.
Radcliff was initially named the Society for the Collegiate Instruction of Women, nicknamed the “Harvard Annex”, in 1879 because it functioned as a female coordinate institution for Harvard, with instruction provided by the Harvard faculty. They renamed it Radcliffe College in 1894. They conferred Radcliffe College diplomas to undergraduates and graduate students for the first 70 or so years of its history. In the '40s during World War II, Harvard and Radcliffe signed an agreement opening Harvard classrooms to women students for the first time. The Radcliffe Graduate School was closed and Harvard’s Graduate School of Arts and Sciences was opened to women in 1963 and they began conferring joint Harvard-Radcliffe diplomas to undergraduates. The first joint Harvard and Radcliffe commencement was held in 1970 and by 1972 Harvard Yard was opened to female residents. In 1977 Radcliffe and Harvard signed an agreement governing their new educational partnership with full integration and officially merged in 1999.
Even through they were not yet fully integrated, at the time of the show Bree would have attended Harvard courses taught by Harvard professors in Harvard classrooms and would have received a Harvard degree. The only difference at that time was that her commencement ceremony would have been separate and she would have been living in a separate dorm.
Thank you for a wonderful recap! Carol you had me crying along with you. That scene of Claire at Lallybroch killed me and still makes me well up thinking about it.
Great episode. I do wish they had done the cutting each other's initials part.
I got goosebumps when I heard Geillis' voice!
This is not to criticize the show but I'm so glad I read the books first. There is so much time given to the yearning and devastation Claire and Jamie felt during the 20 years apart there is a huge emotional payoff when Claire realizes Jamie could still be alive if she went back.
Thx for the recap as always, ladies! My thoughts: I know I'm in the minority it seems, but the jumping back and forth was too much for me. I felt like I never had a chance to really feel what was happening because we kept leaving Culloden intensity for super slow scenes like Bree and Roger at a pub or the lake or attic. It frustrated me and I tried to fast forward to stay in Scotland. I wish it hadn't been so choppy. As a result of the scenes cut so short, I think I especially missed more with the goodbye. I'm so thankful they showed AT LEAST the fast love scene, but a little more emphasis on Jamie's emotion (not to mention, God forbid, something resembling the cottage scene) would have been great. I liked Bree and Roger actually. To me, Claire can be very annoying, it doesn't surprise me that Bree can run her mouth and be a little annoying too! Ha! I thought Claire looked beautiful. I didn't like her helping kill Dougal though. It probably wouldn't have bothered me if not for the fact that it was just another instance of the writers taking something from Jamie so Claire can be the strong woman as always. She's plenty strong and busy in the books without diminishing Jamie one iota. The 'dance' back to the stones was lovely. I finally could see some true love and connection between them. I definitely felt the sunrise was cheesy. I kept thinking of Scarlet O'Hara, raising her fist and saying, 'As God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again!' 😂 I'm canceling STARZ till next season, and I'm hoping they make some changes to the show-- like showing some passion and letting Jamie be Jamie! (I better not see one EW cover that is remotely sexy. A peck on the forehead seems to be enough for this show! Lol!)
YES Brandy, you TOTALLY TOUCH ON WHY I WAS UPSET at the end...and I find it interesting that you blame the "back and forth"...yet I liked it. Because you have a POINT!! Maybe THAT is why I felt so gypped at the end...like we never really got to mourn Jamie's loss! I guess I mourned when Claire saw his ghost in the archway (made evident to the masses by my blubbering on camera LOL) but when he was truly gone at the end, when she went through, it all happened so fast that it was like they were barely apart. THANKS - you have given me a ton to ponder! 👍🏻
I liked the back and forth too! It added to the urgency, and it was like Claire's "stream of consciousness" - these memories of her final days there were being brought to mind by the "ghosts" that had been reawakened by her 1968 return
Did anyone notice Bree is not an engineer but a history major. That does impact the story line going forward. I loved your recap. And the "mark me" reading was lol. Please do a wrap up podcast for season 2. Anticipating your insight.
Dinna fast, Carri. We will be doing a wrap up video verra soon. (I dinna know why I'm talking like Pocket Jamie...but I am. 😂) Tracey and I have to get our schedules together and "just do it!" :)
Doesn't Bree change back and get her degree in Engineering from MIT? Of course we only have THE BOOKS (as in THE BIBLE, the source material, the stuff Herself wrote) to go by here. But after she finds out more about Jamie, Claire, and Frank, didn't Bree embrace her inner nerd and opt for the scientific side?
Just wanted to enjoy the final episode as TV. Listened to RDM's comments explained why there was not even a flashback or a short montage of Culloden to wrap up only the most important battle in Scottish history. Would have tied up loose ends like who died, but he did answer some questions on his podcast so I don't want to write any spoilers. I felt the music and cuts between the times of history were pretty jarring with the music, fewer would have been better, and better transitions - but that is an editor's and music staff choice.
I actually went back and watched the first half hour of 201 when Claire comes back before I watched 213 again. Made it all the more poignant.
There were times where emotions kicked in, and I'm not much of doing that for film or TV. But seeing Jamie at Lallybroch and Claire talking to the Fraser stone were moving, very moving. When she overheard the "dragonfly in amber" comment - that registered very emotionally with me as it confirmed Jamie was on the battlefield to Claire. Even after reading DG's comments, I still identified with it's meaning.
I too missed the cutting of initials of J and C, as was "herself," but at the end of the day, it's up to the showrunner and not the author. I think she's been given a lot of leeway in input on the show - more than any author of any source material for TV or film that I am aware of.
Opening credits are negotiated with agents and up to the showrunner. Yes, there have been some shows that could put credits at the end, but it's pretty rare in b'cast or cable TV because of agents and what credits mean in a career with SAG/AFTRA. HBO pretty much is one channel that can get away with putting guest cast at the end of their series credits.
While I know this was to tie the two centuries together, I was only really moved by the Claire/Jamie portions. I think new characters will have to be an acquired taste and will take getting used to seeing new faces. I was pretty invested in the many characters we lost.
I felt Cat played the emptiness of 20 years weighing on her very well. There was such a feel of a lost life and living one she didn't want,that she did capture.
For Dougal's scene, I know Cat wanted to be involved, but also Dougal had cut (I believe) Jamie's bad hand and it seemed she wanted to make sure there was enough strength to get the job done.
RDM did say they could not get permission to shoot at national monuments - but no spoilers here.
I thought they finished DIA as well as they could based on the shooting decisions they made. They think Voyager will be easier to break into 13 episodes. They were clear that DIA was a real challenge. - jefsantamonica
Tracey and Carol, thank you for the wonderful recap. I really needed that extra cry and laugh. MOP is for me like ESPN is for my husband after he watches sports. Its the analysis and comparisons of what we all watch that makes it a complete Outlander experience. I really loved the finale. It exceeded my expectations. I love Roger, just like I thought I would. I wondered if they were trying to make him look a bit soft and professor like so there will be a notable transformation later as he becomes a highlander. Did everyone hear the "smells like a effing BBQ" from Roger? Made me laugh. However, I'm going to need an attitude adjustment over Brianna simply because I really needed the blue eyes. I'm sure I will get over it and will love her, but it was such a big part of her book description and is mentioned so often, particularly in comparison to Jamie. Lots of super 60s fashions, music, tourist site. I loved Claire's classic Burberry coat. I could just hear the costume/set round table discussions. I cried during any and all references to goodbye or loss. I made it personal because I was a young teenager living in Europe in 68 (military family) and said so many goodbyes to people never seen again. The last part of the lead up to Culloden felt rushed, but still well done all thing considered. Jamie's close ups were fantastic and he looked every bit the warrior. I particularly loved his expressions during "Kill Charles Stuart?!" so classic. Personally, I remember loving the part at the cottage where Jamie turns around and Claire puts her hand on his back and blesses him, but I knew we weren't getting that. In the end, I really did put the book down and just enjoyed the entire episode. Carol, I gleamed a bit of advice from you early on. Last year, I listened to all of the podcast after every episode and enjoyed them because they were so informative, but I also heard things that made me say Dang, I wish they hadn't done that! So this year when you mentioned that you didn't listen to them immediately, I thought, good idea! I think it helped me step back a bit and just enjoy the show. Can't wait till next season!!
Here are some of my thoughts on the season finale that was near perfection in my view. 1. Claire (and her hair) make sense to me. When she first appears in the episode I saw what everyone saw, and that is a breathtaking beauty of the 1960's: so MOD,yet polished and pulled together. As I looked deeper I saw Claire's hair as the metaphor for her life since her return through the stones - ironed within an inch of its life; teased up; and hairsprayed into a shape and appearance that evokes the taming of something wild into something unnatural. Claire has subjugated herself for the greater good - to give Brianna a safe and happy childhood and a "proper" upbringing. She has created a veneer of normalcy which is like her hair - stiff and fake. Which brings me to .... 2. Brianna. Yes, her behaviour is "bratty" but why not? She has grown up in the warm glow of Frank's total devotion and indulgence. A real Daddy's princess. And now at 20 she finds herself not only having to come to grips with the sudden death of her idol - BUT - finding out that he's not her biological father?!?! Who would not be supremely pissed off? Claire's stoicism, British-stiff-upper-lip, and traumas shut her off emotionally and created that distance between her an Brianna that Brianna tells Roger about. So yeah, Brianna is bratty. 3. Roger. Book-Roger was "meh" to me. But TV-Roger... love, love love at first sight.
Thank you so much for a great recap. I laughed and cried with you. Totally missed the Fiona stink eye and had to go back to catch that. I was reaching for tissues as Carol was crying about Jamie in the archway after I had already cried on my own. Laughed with you at the comparison of the Lallybrook deed to how we treat the Declaration of Independence... never would have even thought of that, you two are so funny!
Mary Tyler Moore finale comparison had me laughing,.. although I loved the waltz to the stones.
You two so get it, there is so much wonderful in these books and yeah, we are so hungry for any scene which includes Diana's beautiful words, like Tracey says, a dog panting over a juicy bone. I haven't been doing any rereads and, after last year, was nervous they would mess this finale up and tried to view with no expectations for anything from the book. I think that helped, and I ended up really loving the finale. I always love hearing your take, you come up with stuff I would have never thought of.
Oh, and by the way, Carol, I binge watched Season 1&2 of "Turn", on Netflix and caught up on Season 3 on Fios on Demand. That finale had me crying, too.
Looking forward to making it through Droughtlander with you two. Colleen
Carol and Tracey, I have loved all your recaps. Every week, I couldn't wait to see what your take would be on the latest episode. So, thank you so much, Ladies.
I enjoyed the second half of this season much more than the first. The best thing I take from the show is the almost perfect casting of all the characters. They come to life in my mind now whenever I reread the books. The best thing is seeing Jamie Fraser in the flesh. My one criticism is that there was not enough Jamie, and he was not allowed to be as wonderful as the Jamie of the books. Some of my other favorites, Mother Hildegarde, Maitre Raymond, and "mahk me" BPC. Love the highlanders, too. They will all be gone now. Will miss them.
But, at the end, the parting at the stones was very moving, as far as it went. I missed some of the exchanges between them. I missed the (dare I say it?) mark me! There was no "C" or "J" to console them in the years of separation. I missed the part about Jamie thanking Claire for his hand, etc.
Maybe it's superficial, but the wrong eye color can be distracting. I got used to the fact that Claire had blue eyes instead of the much touted "whiskey" colored eyes. I could accept that Jenny had dark eyes instead of the same eyes as Jamie. But, Brianna is really distracting with those dark eyes. She was supposed to be the image of Jamie, something elemental to the story in my view. It looks like they could have found someone who looked the part, since this was so emphasized in the book. Claire keeps saying "You're so like him." And come on, TV Claire and TV Jamie both have beautiful blue eyes. They could not have a brown-eyed child. They would each have two blue genes to contribute, since blue is recessive. Neither would have brown gene pass on to their baby. It's not believable. Maybe Bri is a changeling. lol
I still think this series could have been near perfect, if they had resolved Jamie's healing at the abbey and gone on in the spirit in which Diana wrote that very important end of Outlander.
I love Murtagh. TV Murtagh was better than book Murtagh. I will miss him so much.
I was having the same issues with Bree's eyes, even to the point of reading up on genetics and eye color. Turns out eye color is determined by several different genes, and yes, blue eyed parents can have brown eyed kids. But what bothered me most about Bree's eyes was that when I saw her I thought, "Hmm, so that's what whiskey-colored eyes look like." The coincidence is annoying, kind of like having to listen to so many "Mark me"s after I'd already re-read the initial carving scene in the book, and then heard (weeks ago) that there would be no initial carving in the TV show. Those "Mark me"s mocked me, and I'm afraid Bree's eyes will do the same.
Yes, well. It might be possible, but it isn't that likely. Look at the entire British royal family. And Bri having brown eyes doesn't fit the story. She is Jamie's daughter and the fact that she is practically the image of him is something that keeps Jamie's memory vibrant in Claire's mind . She is the ever present living reminder.
I had to spend a lot of time contemplating that scene where Claire assists with Dougal's killing (won't call it murder because it was clearly self-defense). I don't see it as Claire stealing the spotlight from Jamie because that is one spotlight that Jamie would never have wanted. Despite their rivalry, Jamie did love his uncle and had no wish to kill him, and it disturbed him emotionally for doing so regardless of the circumstances. He is not a petty or vindictive man for the most part. Vengeance, yes, but this was not a case of vengeance. He tried everything he could to talk Dougal down so that it wouldn't come to this. I think Claire recognized this and saw how Jamie was holding back and hesitating to do the deed, thereby endangering himself. Her own history with Dougal was fraught with much more danger than Jamie ever experienced from his uncle and she had a total absence of the familial compassionloyalty that Jamie had. Physically, both of the men were exhausted before the fight even began, but Dougal had a rage that was driving him that Jamie didn't have which put Jamie at a disadvantage. Add to that Jamie's mangled hand from Wentworth and the hand slash that he took at the beginning of the fight and he was in trouble, bleeding so badly that his grasp on he knife was uncertain. I think Claire also felt some guilt for being the cause of the fight for suggesting the poisoning of BPC. I saw her motives as wanting to aide her husband in a time of need and of sharing the emotional burden of the deed. This is not the first (or the last) time that Jamie has paid in blood for Claire's rash actions and/or words. I vote Yea.
I saw Dougal as growing increasingly unhinged mentally, really beginning back in Episode 105 - remember all those impassioned "Long Live the Stuart!" speeches in "Rent"? I think that's why he did so much to protect Claire in 106 and 107 - he was really protecting his rebellion. I just saw him as progressively losing it from then on. That speech he gives right before the fatal fight - about giving your heart to something only to realize you've been betrayed - I think that had less to do with betrayal by a woman than with the realization that his political cause had been lost. I think at that point he was ready to lash out at anyone. The realization that all was lost probably caused him to have that super strength people get when they are in extremis.
OK, so a question from a non-book reader...maybe kinda spoilery(?) When Claire says at the end of the episode that she needs to go back to Jamie, how does she know what year that the stones will take her back to? In the show, they see Geillis go back through in 1968, and I assume that she arrives BEFORE or in early 1743 because she was there when Claire arrived the first time and was established in the community and had already married Mr. Duncan. Since I haven't seen that the stones come equipped with any contraption that allows one to dial in the desired year (ala Marty McFly in the DeLorean and Bill and Ted in the phonebox), how does Claire know she won't arrive before Jamie is born, or if she goes soon after Geillis then before Jamie met her the first time? Maybe this is explained in Geillis' notebooks?
Sorry if this was already discussed in the recap or in the comments...I am writing this from Denmark this morning and haven't had a chance to see the recap or read all comments yet. Leaving for a cruise today and one of our port visits is Invergordon (Inverness). We're taking an Outlander Tour with Inverness Tours...so exciting! I saw that Diana Gabaldon will be giving a talk at Culloden on the evening of the 22nd, but will be touring Culloden the very next morning so we'll just miss her talk! I'll try to send some pics of the Outlander Tour to Carol.
P.S. I really want to watch your recap now but fear the video (or me laughing out loud) might not be appropriate here in the hotel lounge area!
I saw this just after I posted, so I thought I'd take a stab at answering your question. More about the lore of the stones and how they work will gradually be revealed, but we got a couple of clues this season. They mention a buzzing sound near the stones, but Jamie can't hear it. Also, in this episode Jamie gave Claire his father's ring, but back in the season premier we saw that the gemstone had been burned out of it.
****Spoiler****
Not everyone can time travel, and there are ways to help "steer" to a desired time. In the books, gemstones help to survive the passage, and each trip through gets harder to endure. Honestly though, after reading all the books, there are still many unknowns.
Hope you enjoy your trip! I made it to Edinburgh many years ago, but didn't get further north. Still, it was great!
Yes to the above but also with the proviso that we SHOULD see Claire, Bree, and Roger spending some time early in S3 trying to "find" Jamie. After all, they have reason to believe J survived the battle, but where would they find him at the point where Claire is ready to go back? After all, 20 (or 202) years have elapsed, and Jamie could have relocated ANYWHERE. I'm hoping they'll intercut their search for records of what happened to him with actual scenes of some of the things he did - Lord Melton, The Dunbonnet, Ardsmuir, Helwater, Geneva & Willie, Lallybroch (Leghaire, ugh!), and Edinburgh - as a way of telling his story during the separation. I know RDM hates Jamie, so I don't know how much we'll actually get (maybe one or two scenes); but I can still hope.
Thank you for entertaining us this season! Even when I felt disappointed, watching your fun recaps always helped “make it better.”
This episode is visually stunning and contains some great acting – esp. Balfe and Heughan. Roger is great, and I like the Geilis change. My favorite scene is Claire at Lallybroch. Oh yes, Carol, I cried there, too - and then shed a few more tears along with you. The Lallybroch scene also made me sad again over how little time we had to spend there after Paris. Remember, we had to leave Lallybroch because we needed to go spend some time with… Laoghaire! (Oh, I’m getting EMOTIONAL again! But tissues won’t help me because I can’t throw them very far, and there’s no satisfying crashing sound!!!)
Tracey, that was a great catch on the hypocritical “mortal sin” comment. But book Jamie is much stronger than show Jamie - in many ways. Dougal’s death is a case in point. I wish they’d kept true to the book, but it seems nobody on this production has heard the adage, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Had it been Jamie on bottom, losing because of his weak hand, then… maybe? But Jamie had the knife’s direction, his youth, weight, and gravity on his side, so adding Claire onto the top of the pile was like overkill (look, a pun!). Also, the timing of those last seconds added a hint of premeditation that didn’t sit well with me. When I recently said that I hoped they wouldn’t blacken Claire’s character anymore over the plan to poison BPC, it never occurred to me she’d help kill Dougal. RDM said he likes to surprise the fans; I just wish he meant in less ridiculous ways.
The thing that left me the saddest about this finale is that we really didn’t get to SEE much of this beautiful, timeless love that Claire tells us about. The show was so preoccupied with plots and plans that we had already been told would fail, that it didn’t bother to focus on the love between Jamie and Claire. That should have been at the heart of this season, especially since we knew a separation was imminent and that an ardent and forgiving Frank was waiting in Claire’s future. We were shown many scenes of J&C at odds, disconnected, or in a marriage that looks like a nearly platonic buddy-ship, but we weren’t shown much proof of a soul-deep love. Expecting viewers to just take that for granted is sloppy storytelling. It was sweet victory to hear Claire proclaim that Jamie was the love of her life, but that should have been more clearly shown. We didn’t have to see more sex scenes, but we did need to see more intimacy. Besides, no one does pillow talk better than Jamie and Claire - so at least give us the words!
The scene at the stones deserved much more time, and that “quickie” wasn’t a very satisfying act of parting passion. It seemed perfunctory, rather than an act of love between two soul mates who never expect to see each other again. I could have used a lot less Bree, and a couple more minutes of Jamie and Claire. I loved hearing so many of DG’s words as they were parting, I just wish they hadn’t been crammed into such a small space of time. I would have even liked one last poignant shot of Jamie, alone, leaning his head against the stone after Claire had traveled through.
I hope I can eventually come back to this season and not re-experience the disappointment of opportunity wasted. As for this finale, as beautiful and re-watchable as it is, it still leaves me feeling a bit like the victim of a Jedi mind trick, where I'm told, “This is NOT the tense and tepid relationship you saw all season. THIS is epic love.”
My sentiments exactly. You always put it so well. I haven't minded some of the changes from the book, but when the show has departed from the true essence of the book, the love story of Jamie and Claire, I have to ask myself why. What did it serve to minimalize the romantic story? Why were the scenes we all wanted to see, grudgingly and almost resentfully meted out in the most abbreviated form possible.
Carol (I think) said that we never felt the loss of Jaime and the separation because it was so rushed. I felt that in the short time they had to rap up the story, they managed to do this. The scene when Claire goes to visit Cullodon is very important. She both re connect to her history and the "Fraser" part of her she put aside for 20 years, and also really saying goodbye and accepting the separation. She is making us feel it too and go throuh this with her, especially if you're not a book reader and you think Jaime died in Culloden. That's why this part is so central and important. As always, loved your recap. Going to miss the smiles and the tears that are a part of MOP and mostly the heart and soul that comes across even when you critisize parts of the show... Adi
Somehow we might get a video post based on how the Emmy noms turn out. Always hope, but there is much competition from many shows that have not won, been on the air longer, have better known actors, higher ratings and last but not least if the Emmy's admit it or not,can be political. Not saying it's fair, but many fine shows and actors have never been nominated, let alone won.-jefsantamonica
Hi Tracey and Carol. GAH! Droughtlander already. I can't wait until Withoutlander is over so we can get back to your hilariously wonderful recaps.
Anyhoo...a couple of observations:
Carol - I burst out crying at the exact same instant you did in your video because I saw that emotion building up on your face. I just wanted to hug you. The whole scene at Lallybroch with her seeing Jamie! GAH! I ripped my heart out too.
And Tracey -- I agree with your feeling that it WAS put in there for books readers...thank goodness it was. I have been reading all kinds of reviews indicating that THAT wordless scene by Cait is the one that will earn her the Emmy. The way she conveyed all the emotions in her face through the whole Lallybroch scene was stunning
About Geillis' 10,000 pounds. I know she "put some away" from Arthur, but wasn't it Sandringham who gives Dougal the money? Am I remembering that wrong?
About Dougal's demise: In the book, Dougal comes after Claire--not Jamie. It was a matter of Jamie DEFENDING and PROTECTING Claire so there is no way Claire would have ever been involved in the stabbing. Plus, I feel it did a disservice to her having taken the Hippocratic Oath. Also, those lines that Dougal utters to Jamie in the show are different than the book where he is saying he thinks Jamie has been bewitched by Claire and he tries to get Jamie away from her. At least that is the way I remembered it.
Tracey - I agree with you on the harsh cuts in the episode. The two most jarring being during those Dougal death scenes. I mean we are in the middle of this major trauma that just happened with Jamie...and Claire...traumatically forced to kill Dougal and they cut away without even giving the characters time to realize what had just happened? Didn't like that at all...it took most of the emotion out of it for me.
Carol -- I also agree with your perspective on the F bomb. I may have been typical for Bree to use those words to Claire as she is a bitchy daughter, but Claire should have been much more emotional about her response--not angrily cursing back. This WAS the love of her life and she sacrificed it for Bree, so she should be angry at Bree--but I feel it was a missed opportunity for Claire to convey the emotional connection with Jamie better. I hated how she says "he was the love of my life" in an angry manner. Those words should have been spoken with the poignant emotion we know Cait is capable of delivering.
I will be checking in for the next nine months until our S3 baby is delivered. Thank you both for being wonderfully entertaining.
This was definitely one of your best recaps! I always get so anxious waiting for them. When I first started watching, my husband asked, "What on earth are you watching?" I told him it was just like a girl chat. He said, "Boy, ya'll sure can talk!" I loved Tracey's comment about the Deed of Sasine and the Declaration of Independence! Also the one about the age of her house (1893 I believe). On our first trip to Scotland, I felt the same sense of how we in America think 200 years is a long time. We rope off things and aren't allowed to touch history. There we were touching relics thousands of years old, looking at cemetery stones barely legible, and climbing around in castle ruins! I too, laughed when the lady walked out with the Deed of Sasine like it was an ordinary piece of paper and even putting it though the copier! I've come to a place with this adventure in Outlander where I can just divorce the books from the TV series and enjoy each for what it is. Not much bothers me (well, maybe seeing Laoghaire out of context....), so the scene at the stones was fine and worthy of a second ugly cry after Claire's visit to Lallybroch. I loved Claire's hairdo. It totally looked Mrs. Robinson from The Graduate(1967)! Perfect Roger stole my heart. I'll warm up to little Brianna soon enough. I do hope you two ladies will help us all though Droughtlander. Maybe a "book club" chapter read/discussion of Voyager? I would sooooo love that! Also, I'm mourning the downtime for Turn too! This is just too much! Help us! Linda Duncan
Late to the party as usual. First, thanks Carol and Tracey for more hilarity and tears. I actually cried with you this time. You have entertained us with your recaps this season, even when you were sleep deprived, had house guest, a little surgery, a child's confirmation, no air conditioning (What!), etc. How can we not feel like real friends. I'll miss you coming into my home each week almost as much as the show. Ok, first thoughts about your recap this week.. You nailed it again. I think most of us have loved this season, but have missed some opportunities for a little more Jamie and Claire intimacy, not so much the physical but the loss of some of Diana's wonderful words. I just watched the very first episode as a refresher, and here's my take on things. The series has come a long way. Acting and production have greatly improved. I remember your saying after the first episode that you couldn't tell one Highlander from another and look how we came to love Murtagh, Rupert, and Angus. Anywhooo, back to this episode - love Roger, might someday like Bree, and Sam and Cait have become the actors they were born to be. Everything wrapped up pretty well, but I did miss that last night In the cottage. I thought it would be the same cottage used in the first episode where Claire set Jamie's arm, oh well. Looking forward to whatever you have for us this year - Turn or Gilmore Girls, whatever. As for Claire's curls being missing in the wet '60's of Scotland, I'm old enough to remember rolling my long Cher like hair in orange juice cans and sleeping on my face to get that straight look. Lots of hair spray and an occasional warm iron were involved for that look. Dang, I'm old. I think Terry nailed the look as I remember it.
Carol and Tracey, What a great post! I look so forward to your reactions after each episode. I sit here and talk to you like I was with you. Laughing, crying, agreeing and disagreeing I couldn't enjoy myself more. I loved this episode. I try to do what Diana said and put down my book. After all she hasn't steered me wrong in 20+ years. I, like you, have opinions about how the story that I love is presented. I liked the cutting back and forth. I had thought I would get one story then the other. It gave me a chance to recover emotionally and pay better attention. Some segments seemed a little abrupt but I can, and do, watch it all again. I loved Bree and Rodger! Bree showed traits from each parent. Jamie's stubbornness and confidence. A bratty attitude no doubt due to Frank. And Claire's controlling the situation. I will say I am glad that you pointed out Fiona's traits. I was so busy watching Rodger look miserable at her attentions I missed her. He was great! So was she! I noticed Bree's eye color but let it go. I thinks she looks like Jamie. As for height well Claire is tall so that story line is decided. I cried lots during my first two watchings. Less after that. Jamie at Lallybroch will always get me. As with everything, that scene was played so well by Cait. The way they killed Dougal was certainly a surprise. I thought it diminished Jamie. They made the point that he needed help and of course Claire would help him. Still I sometimes think Ron is trying to minimize Jamie being The King of Men. I also think he tries to minimize the intimacy so no one says this is a love story. The two reasons I love these stories most. I loved the goodby to Fergus. I loved Murtaugh too. Want him to be saved but... I also want them to stick to the books. If you change the story it changes what will happen in future episodes. Hmmm imagine changing the future... The goodby scene was wonderful. I did miss the cottage and the "mark me" scene. I was crying so hard I didn't see much the first time. I liked the Dragonfly in Amber reference. Loved the hands. Al in all I feel so blessed that these books that I have loved so long have been brought to tv and I get to interact with my fellow readers. I thank you for all that you do. It is greatly appreciated. Look forward to you both helping me through this droughtlander. Your fan, Kare.
I have said this here before over the last two years, and FYI: At NO point is Jamie Fraser EVER referred to in any of the Outlander books as "The King of Men." I checked it MICROSCOPICALLY, believe me! That term is a near-pejorative one invented by the Outlander TV writers - I suspect mostly by RDM and Ira Behr - to refer to Jamie. It says volumes about some of the writers' utter contempt for the Jamie character - and by extension for the actor who plays him. I repeat: "King of Men" has nothing to do with the books or the Jamie Fraser character as written. Totally a TV creature.
The King of Men moniker was most certainly NOT invented by RDM or ANYONE connected to the show. That came from the Outlander FANDOM a loooong time ago. And yes, thank God, RDM is trying to tone that down so that the character can be taken seriously!
Thanks, Ladies, for your pithy review video. The Finale was a beautiful 90 minutes of television. It would be exciting for a viewer to see who knows nothing about the show. But for us, the readers and regular viewers, I felt the choppiness was unnerving, though I think today's viewers have shorter attention spans. Roger captured my heart on TV: in the books, I think he is wimpy, but I thought Rik portrayed him well, so naturally. I look forward to his scenes with Claire. Bree was bratty, her usual unlikable self, so spoiled by Frank. Her eyes didn't bother me, but I am anxious to see her scenes with Jamie: I want to see her boldness and gunshooting. She seemed immature in this ep but she's supposed to be 20. The Lallybroch and Culloden scenes with Claire were spellbinding. She says she tries not to think about Jamie for 20 years, and "Now the ghosts are chasing her" in Scotland. They were good scenes. Why did they have Claire stick her big paw in the fight scene? Ron has mentioned wanting to include Claire in scenes, well, the 1968 parts are mostly Claire, and Bree and Roger, but Culloden is for Claire and Jamie! In the future, if they want more Claire (for Cait to have more to do), they should write in a healing scene every week. Those moments in the book were exciting and fun to read and Claire can operate and sew up to her heart's content. I missed the cottage scene but I knew they wouldn't include something so long. I even asked for at least a Quickie love scene, last week on this blog, and so I got what I asked for. It wasn't very satisfying, but Jamie's speech was so important I didn't care what they did. Sam was wonderful. I liked the urgency of the Culloden scenes. I loved Jamie turning his head when he heard the cannon while declaring his love to Claire. Let's hope during Voyager they stay with Jamie scenes, cave and prison, without flashing around. SPOILER: I have a feel that since Mary McNab was not introduced this year, she will not appear in Voyager....so who might we see in the cave? A certain loathsome "maiden"? I loved the Finale, the spectacle and the scenery. We need more Jamie next year. We need more Love scenes and Love speeches. I'm not concerned about the makeup or hair coloring. I hope they don't change the story too much. I'm looking forward to your next video!!
Hi Tracey and Carol! What a great breakdown! I want to confirm something I heard you discuss, Bree's hat and clothes. In 1968 I was 18 yrs old. I had a hat just like the one she wore. It was my Beatles hat! lol. The Beatles and the "British Invasion" made quite an impact on American culture including clothing styles. I had the stove pipe pants, the scarf, the works. Terry Dresbach has Bree's look down perfectly.
Hi Carol and Tracey! Love you guys! Just wanted to put my *two cents* in on why I think Brianna is so unliked by almost everyone. When DG wrote Brianna in the beginning, she was not a fully realized character. Except for her uncanny physical likeness to Jamie, and her loyalty to Frank (the man who raised and loved her for 20 YEARS), we knew nothing about Brianna the person. This means that since we Don't Know Anything About Her we can only *characterize* her by reaction to another character's story,THAT IS IT. This writing choice is 'stacking the cards' against her from the beginning. Where as with William we were given a fully thought out character, before he was confronted with his parentage. As well as, the foreknowledge of these two characters' relationship (I.E. Jamie parenting at Helwater). We don't get that with Claire and Brianna til after we meet Bree. So we associate the characterization of Brianna, FIRST by her physical appearance. Which has many in an *uproar* in terms of the TV show, people listen they are not going to recast her. Sophie is a really great *mesh* between Sam& Cait. The show has decided to make Brianna look like BOTH of her parents, so that automatically goes against Bree's initial *presence*(characterization) in DIA. This is also why lines from the book 'you are so like him' have no impact in the show. SECOND, Brianna's loyalty to Frank and dislike of Jamie. It makes no sense for her to *automatically* be loyal to, or even like Jamie, a man SHE DOESNT KNOW. BUT the viewer and/or reader does know Jamie, creating a conflict of interest between reader/viewer and character (since we don't have Bree's POV). Brianna's initial introduction is at the fault of the writer, and not the character herself. This is true for both book and show. So ultimately...BRIANNA IS AN UNDEVELOPED CHARACTER FROM THE BEGINNING OF HER STORYLINE!...AND is the reason that she is so unlikeable from the beginning! Again thank you ladies, can't wait for next season:)
That's my point...readers only associate with Brianna by her looks, because that's how DG introduced her as an extension of Jamie. Making Brianna the female version of Jamie, this intentionally makes you put Jamie's characteristics onto Brianna. That is not a fully developed character ( by herself). The show decided to make Brianna both Claire and Jamie , so the book *preception* of Brianna is not valid for the television show. For some this sucks, but again that's part of adaptation.
Being almost a total contemporary of Bree's age-wise, I think they got a lot right with the character. 20-year-old young women in 1968 WERE selfish, rude, mouthy, politically-awakening, interpersonally-inept, intellectually-curious, impatient, daddy's girls, with mommy issues. I do wish, though, that they'd had Claire refer to just ONE personality trait she saw Bree as having in common with Jamie (stubborn, wanting the truth, charming, intellectual, loyal - to name a few), rather than constantly going back to the hair, the hair, the hair. Drove me a bit nuts.
Did want to say, as a Rik Rankin fan: I loved him before; was thrilled when he was cast (altho I was not part of the gaggle that vocally clamored for it); and he did NOT disappoint.
I was 24 in 1968. The clothes are spot on for both Claire and Bree. However, I don't remember any of my friends using the F word nor did I ever hear my parents use it. I believe the first time I heard it in the media other than books or "blue" comedy albums such as Lenny Bruce, was Barbara Streisand yelling it in the movie The Owl and the Pussycat. Maybe I lived in a less "cool" area ... Florida on an air force base ... but I just knew it was not a word to be used. And the bratty behavior Bree used with Claire was also not the kind of behavior me nor my friends would ever use toward a adult. The conventions of behavior certainly were different in different areas of the country but to many women my age (ahem ... in our golden years) we didn't generally use profanity ... in public anyway. And as the daughter of an army nurse I never heard my mother use anything other than "Jesus Mary and Joseph" or "Sh*t* ... NEVER Fword. Just saying.
I agree with you, especially the F word. Then, behaviors were different. Did Diana write the F word in dialog between Bree and Claire? As far as teenage attitude, I sure displayed that!
Thanks again for another review! About Brianna - I thought book Brianna was a very bratty annoying 20-year old know-it-all. I didn't like her at all until she grew up a bit (book 4 or 5 if I remember). I thought Sophie Skelton did a great job of conveying this in this episode. She was as annoying as her book version. Her American accent was fine, but coming from 1968 I would have thought she might have used some of the youth vernacular at the time, like - groovy, cool, far-out, yeah man, can you dig it? After all, she went to school at MIT which was a hotbed of counterculture at the time. Also bellbottoms and/or miniskirt? I grew up in that era - loved the music in the episode.
ReplyDeleteAlso I loved Claire's Jackie O hairdo and glasses.
WHAT relatives in London? (That was a real throwaway line!)
ReplyDeleteI took it to mean Frank's relatives.
DeleteThank you. I have been over and over that in my mind, Lone Star. Wouldn't Frank's relatives know about her disappearing with the fairies...and then they moved to the US when she showed up again. And they know how old Bree is. It just doesn't seem like she would have had a great relationship with them. Oh well. Suspension of disbelief! :)
DeleteI loved the season finale and I'm psyched that we have a 2 hour recap to look forward to:) About Claire helping Jamie... I didn't care for that. All season I've been complaining about TV Jamie being robbed. I didn't feel that strongly about this incident, but I did get a flash of "OMG, just let the man murder in peace, he's 6'-3", 200+ lbs, a soldier, young- he can take Dougal"! I think they did it to show that Claire making good on her promise to help Jamie kill, if necessary. They didn't get BJR, but they got Dougal. The BJR/ Frank/ Mary thing wrapped, perhaps Claire wanted to express that commitment to their family, to Jamie.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Claire stepped in because Jamie was stabbing Dougal with the hand that BJR smashed. It may have been weakened enough that Claire needed to help him.
Deletehttp://www.vulture.com/2016/07/outlander-graham-mctavish-dougal-knife-fight.html
ReplyDeleteHere's s link that explains why they decided to have Claire help kill Dougal... It was Grahsm's idea!
I read that the original plan was to have Claire kill him, but that Starz said no. Thank goodness! Geez, Gabaldon knows these characters better than anyone and take years to write these scenes, but then they make some stupid changes based on whims (e.g., Laoghaire). Hey, maybe they should hire DG as a consultant! And actually consult her, too!
DeleteHello Ladies, please watch Ron's podcast as many of your questions will be answered... Love you both, laughing and crying with you.
ReplyDeleteHere are my initial thoughts after watching the finale:
ReplyDeleteIt was the cheesiness ending ever ... especially with light radiating out of the rocks and Claire's fluttering eyes. What was up with that??? I'm surprised you guys didn't talk about that at all! So weird!!!
... And I'm sorry... I thought Bree was not bratty enough. I wanted to yell, "Cut! Let's do it again and this time with a little more attitude girl"! I thought her acting was kind of flat like in Twilight. I loved the Twilight books and yes the actors look just like how they were described in the books ... But boy their acting really sucked. I just hope over time Sophie has a little more emotion in her voice. Sorry... I know not everyone will agree.
I absolutely loved Roger!!! He will be wonderful! He has always been one of my favorites.
I think at the rocks Jamie knew Claire would not go unless he made her. That's why he did the very gentle "dance" towards the head stone. The look on Jamie's face with the tears on face at the very end when he was slowly putting her hand on the stone is when I broke down... So heart wrenching.
I already watched 4 times... It was really good.
Luanne, I agree about a lot of what you've said. Sometimes I don't talk about things because of my "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" policy. LOL! I will dig up my texts to Tracey and see if there is anything about the wondrous golden light emanating from the stones. Oy vey. I thought it was a bit overdone...like Jesus was going to walk through them. But...then again...maybe that's the effect they were going for?
DeleteYou two are a SCREAM - Carol, honey, I am SO with you! Isn't it amazing how both the book and the series can wrench our hearts! (I cant believe that I'm sobbing along with a blog!!)
ReplyDeleteIn my dreams, season 3 will open with a flashback to the cottage loving, enough to last them 20 years. (RDM owes us a grotto scene too!!)
When we gripe about Droughlander, just think: J and C - now THAT'S a 20 year Droughtlander!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG Peigi...I couldn't believe I was crying on camera!! LOL!! LOVE your dream flashback. And I TOTALLY agree on the grotto scene. I really feel like we were left a bit unsatisfied in the "loving" department this season. 😐
DeleteGreat review. I agree with just about everything you said, though I don't think you mentioned at the ending when Bree says "I believe you...." This was the same dialogue as what Jamie said to Clare after Craigsmuire. That is where I grabbed for the hanky. Growing up in the 60's I loved the music played from that era and right away I told my daughter that Clare's hair is the Jackie O hairdo. I agreed with Peigi that the need to start off next season with flashback of the cottage action. Tracy great catch on the book 'mark me' I am still laughing. I do hope you have another show before we part into droutlander. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThere were two other instances of this. Gillian asks Bri, "Why are you here?" in just the same tone that Geillis asks Claire at the witch trial. Then, when Geillis was going through the stones and Roger yells that something smells like a f...ing barbecue. Same comment by Geillis at the witch trial.
DeleteCarol and Tracey,
ReplyDeleteSo much good going on here! Thank you Carol and Tracy! I thought this finale was Spectacular. Grabbed me by the heart and wounded me. The swelling had just gone down in my eyes and here you guys got me going again.
Thought all of the 60s stuff - the hair, the clothes, the music, Claire's Jamie-Fraser-Cats-Eye glasses - were totally groovy. Claire was so incredibly beautiful. I was apprehensive about Rankin as Roger, especially with the beard, but from the moment I saw him standing there with tears of grief pooling in his eyes - he had me and he never let me go. I thought it was GENIUS to bring the Rev's wake into play. It not only gave Roger immediate emotional depth but it also gave him something in common to share with Claire and Bree, to allow him to empathize with these two women, to understand what they were going through enough to help them and to serve as a voice of calm reason in the midst of the chaos they suddenly found themselves in.
Cait played her role to perfection, delivering a sense of the utter emotional vacuum that she had been existing in for the past 20 years. The deadness in her voice and expression when she spoke of Frank and how her entire being lit up when she spoke of Jamie. And Bree saw it, too, struggled with it through the whole episode.
I like Sophie's Bree so much better than book Bree. I know she comes off bratty, but how would one expect her to feel, finding out that her mom left her beloved Daddy (who she just recently lost) for three years and got herself pregnant by another man and kept it a secret all her life? Did anyone expect she would actually believe the fairy tale Claire was telling? That moment at the end when she tells her mom that she believed - using the same words that Jamie used when he first found out - was priceless.
Claire's scenes at Lallybrock and Culloden had me bawling out loud. When she reached her hand up to touch her lips while hearing "Then let amorous kisses dwell On our lips, begin and tell A Thousand and a Hundred score A Hundred, and a Thousand more", then looked up and saw Jamie standing there - OMG! So heart rending! And although I could have done without all of the mud, that final scene between J&C was devastating! When he guided her hand to the stone, with that tear flowing down his face I totally lost it.
Carol, I don't care for the use of the f-word either, but Claire uses it quite freely and I'm not surprised that Bree picked it up. In this case, I was OK with it because it was being used specifically to make the distinction between making love and vulgar sex. And it caused "He was the love of my life!" to explode from Claire for the first time in 20 long years. It brought the hair up on my arms. If you check out the look on Roger's face, standing over there by the whisky decanter - I think that's when he first started to believe.
I thought they did a great job encapsulating the whole Gillian/Geillis story. I especially liked that we heard her voice before we actually got our first glimpse of her. Great direction! I agree,the way they did her relationship with Bree was masterful.
I know that a lot of people thought the ending was corny but, to steal a favorite line from The Holiday, "I like corny. I'm looking for corny in my life." The dawn actually does arrive that fast, especially in mountainous areas. And also remember that henges are specifically designed so that they are perfectly aligned with the sunrise/sunset on the solstices.
Looking forward to your Season 2 wrap up!
- Promises
I agree!
DeleteI am totally with you. You have expressed my thoughts. The scene of Jamie bathed in golden light under the arch of Lallybroch was sublime. In Claire's eyes he would remain forever young and beautiful and wrapped in plaid - an image of a bygone time and extinct lifestyle.
DeleteThe same golden light appears at the end and bathes Claire's face, transforming her from the cold and dark without Jamie to the warmth and light of the promise of his embrace once more. Too, too beautiful.
Thank you for the recap ladies I watch all of your videos and MOP chat when I can for over a year now and you never disappoint. Even though season 2 at times did disappoint me, as a whole I really enjoyed it and esp the last half of the season I loved and I can't say enough that I'm looking forward to season 3, Voyager is my second favorite book in the series. I have really high hopes for it and I think that Cait and Sam will knock it out of the park but in the end it all depends on the new writers coming on and what they do creatively. Take care everyone ��
ReplyDelete😘
DeleteI had two thoughts about the color and light at the ending. First, when Dorothy came out of her house after it landed on the witch, it went from black and white to color. She was entering a new adventure. Secondly, I had a friend who was a recovering alcoholic. He told me living without alcohol ( his mistress) was like living in black and white. It was all in color when he was with his true love-the bottle. Now I know that it a little far fetched but it's what I thought of.
ReplyDeleteBoth of those are fantastic! THANK YOU for sharing, anon. I will think about the alcoholic reference all day. ❤️
DeleteHey, Tracey and Carol!
ReplyDeleteLoved your recap, and LOVED this finale beyond belief! I recently wrote that if we did not get the night in the cottage, the sex, sex, and up against-the-wall-one-last-time-cuz-the-Redcoats-are-comin' sex, I would be bitterly disappointed. I'm happy to say that was not the case, for me anyway. The minute-by-minute 24 style countdown of the battle preparations gave the illusion of urgency, as did their wild ride, two-thrust (Louis came to mind, but only a smidge) coupling, and Jamie's backward dance with her to the stones. I did miss the J and C, but the amber and Brian's ring definitely sufficed in my mind.
I can't say much about Claire's participation in Dougal's death. I don't know why, but it did not bother me one way or the other. As Carol noted, perhaps she, in true Claire character, was just making sure the job got done, or that she did not want Jamie to bear the burden alone. (I hope I'm not confusing which one of you was ok with it).
As for Lotte's name in the beginning credits, I didn't notice, but if I had, I wouldn't have been spoiled, because she did play an important part at the end of the book. Their portrayal of Geillis, by the way, was brilliant, in my opinion. Non-book readers may not quite have understood her passion for Scotland, and her obsession with BPC without that scene of her at the rally. I also liked the condensed version of how Claire found her, and was able to swipe her notebooks, etc. That was a two or three day process, involving several stops, Roger's assistance, etc., etc., in the book, and I really like how they compressed it, all while adding to it even.
I should take Tracey's lead and make organized notes while watching you two, because my mental notes of what I want to discuss seem to leave my brain! Hah! But I look forward to seeing you some during Droughtlander.
Oh, and Mark Me, I won't let you forget... I am a 16'er!
Carla
I'm ok with Claire's participation in Dougal's death too. Remember what a wild man we have seen him be when provoked.
DeletePlus, 'there's the 2 of us now'
Oh, yes! What a snake he was! But show Dougal (Graham Mac) made me love the character a bit more!
DeleteI forgot to add this in my above comment - my husband has never read one word of any Outlander book; however, he has had many passages read TO him, by me, in the past 10-12 years. (I was late to the OL party). So, he was familiar with the story and the characters, and looked forward to the Starz series.
ReplyDeleteWe have had some happy OL moments over the past two seasons. We have two restaurants, and usually work late on Saturday nights - at separate places. I'm the first to arrive home most times, but I wait for him. No matter how late, he always says, "Let's watch Outlander!" But I think my happiest moments came during the season 2 finale when several times he said, "This is really good!" The BEST was after it was over, he asked me to fill him in on what comes next in Voyager. Smile - cuz you hate to be that boring nerd who thinks everyone wil find it as fascinating as you do!
Had to share
Carla
I liked most of this episode but I am just thunder struck that Claire joined in and pushed the knife into Dougal! What the .... I think once again this show felt the need to knock Jamie down a peg and this was a way to do by letting Claire do the killing. For crying out loud what the heck happened to our BIG Strong Scotts Warrior! He was all but turned into a school boy this season. I loved many things about this episode and cried along with others as Jamie took Claire back to the stones but I can not find the big, loveable, strong, good MAN that Jamie is in the book. I will need Droughtlander to get my Outlander mo-jo back. I have my kindle open to the fight scene and it was perfect in the book .... so sad they changed it.
ReplyDeleteClaire is also not the Claire I grew to love either. sniff...
I HATED that change. He is her warrior! He can do things by himself, especially kill Dougal. They take away Jamie's lines, his ideas, his moments. It's SO about Claire that she seems like his mother sometimes! Always scowling and taking charge. UGH! Ok. Rant over. 😩
DeleteI'm with ya, Brandy!!! Jamie needs an entire episode dedicated to him - by himself - to make up for all the times the spotlight has been snatched away from him!
DeleteYou are right, ladies. Bring back our JAMMF - king of men!
DeleteI'm still not sure what to make of Claire being involved with Dougal's death, but it feels unnecessary to have her joining in. I've felt more than once throughout both seasons that things are a little heavy-handed with the female empowerment - especially when it has resulted (more than once, also) in the diminishment of Jamie's character.
DeleteAnd Carol, I understood SO WELL what you were trying to articulate about what a *good* man Jamie is. I've seen many comments about how the mere name, Jamie Fraser, will prompt weeping. And criminy, does Sam portray the hell out of that man. T_T
Agree 100% Why does the show feel the need to minimize Jamie? They have a more than capable actor in the role. Season 1, his berzerk 3 on 1 brawl turned into a group brawl ... while he was outside. Season 2, Murtagh confronts BJR with Claire not Jamie, Claire gives him the out with Lord John, Claire helps to kill Dougal, Claire even suggests naming the baby Brian. WTF? What's the purpose? To show that he's younger than Claire? I miss the "tension" in their relationship that comes from him being a man from the 1740's and her being a woman from the 1940's. Some of their best conversations revolve around their ideas about their respective identities/ roles in the world. Book Jamie would definitely not been down with pregnant Claire getting involved in a fight. It would have killed his pride. TV Jamie is so modernly "safe". Will he grow into "book Jamie" next season? He has to evolve...I'm dying to see badass Jamie.
DeleteLoved Fergus as portrayed in the show but question if Claire and Jamie truly loved him like their own son wouldn't they at least have tried to have Claire take him back with her to keep their "son" safe? hm?
ReplyDeleteCarol and Tracey, great recap! The Mary Tyler Moore Show reference really made me laugh. I love the references you make during your recaps. I hope you do another video reviewing the whole season 2. Thanks for the chuckles.
ReplyDeleteWe're going to, Anon. Be afraid. 😘
DeleteCarol and Tracey,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for the great review!
Regarding Claire helping Jamie stab Dougal, here are my two cents for what they are worth. Dougal made it very very clear that he intended to kill them both. While Jamie and Dougal were in a fast paced fight there wasn't anything Claire could do but watch these two large strong men go at it. But when they were on the floor struggling for the knife and it really came down to who was more desperate, who was more weak from hunger, who was more determined to get the job done...well, if it was me watching my husband struggle for his life and wondering if Dougal might get one last burst of determination, there is no way I wouldn't have done exactly what Claire did whether he needed me to or not. And let's be clear, if Dougal had killed Jamie, Claire would have been next. So again, it wasn't murder, it was self defense on both their parts.
I too felt very cheated by the way too brief love making scene by the stones. I just feel like they cut out so many romantic scenes between Jamie and Claire that they really owed it to the audience to get this one right. It really doesn't seem like they would have had to change the timeline all that much to work that out either. Still, I actually really loved Jamie moving Claire toward the stones. It was like he realized just what a difficult thing it was that he was asking of her. As he said in the book, he was asking her to rip out her own heart and live without it. So he was trying to lessen the burden for her by giving her no choice. So many tears!
As for Brianna and Claire's 1960's look: I was able to accept that Brianna was not as tall as she is in the book pretty quickly, still it felt very lazy too me that they didn't at least put Sophie Skelton in shoes that would make her as tall as Caitriona Balfe. When they were arguing and Claire was looking down toward Brianna it did really bother me.
My biggest issue, however, which actually made me have to watch the episode again because I couldn't stop thinking about it the first time was the ugly gray streaks in Claire's hair. Maybe that is really shallow, and there was so much that was so great about Claire's look, but I wanted to shake whoever put in her hair what you so hilariously referred too as Cruella Deville streaks and scream "Read the book"! Claire is not supposed to have very noticeable gray hair. Several characters mention her youthful appearance. One character even says that although they know logically that she must be at least 40 (she is actually quite a bit older than that) she doesn't look it with only a few fine lines near her eyes and a small amount of gray threading in her hair. So basically, she is supposed to look about the age Caitriona Blafe actually is. I always thought that was Diana Gabaldon's little consolation prize to readers upset that Jamie and Claire missed out on spending most of their young adult lives together. At least they are the type to maintain their youthful appearance.
Please Ron, get rid of the streaks and find some logical way to explain it away. Maybe she had added those streaks in to make herself appear more distinguished to the hospital staff. Maybe she finds an effective and natural way to color her hair that works even in the 1700's...and on a ship. But please do not make us look at those ugly streaks during reunion sex between Jamie and Claire! Nobody wants to see that and I say that as a woman in my 40s!
Thanks again!
Diane
The "determination" thing is a good point. But would it have really been on Dougal's side? Dougal has nothing to lose really. He's hangry, true. But Jamie, at that point, knows that his wife is pregnant. He knows that he has to get her and his only child to safety. Dougal obviously thinks that she's led Jamie astray. He offers Jamie a "quick" death... what did he plan for Claire? Jamie would have killed Dougal to protect Claire before Claire even knew what was happening. It seemed out of character for him to need help in that situation.
DeleteI see where you are coming from and I don't think Jamie actually needed Claire's help either. He would have gotten the job done himself. I do think, however, that Claire felt the need to help Jamie. She knew that his hand was cut and his other hand was crippled, Dougal was clearly in a rage and Jamie didn't really want his uncle dead. I think it would have been out of character for Claire to just stand aside and do nothing to help if she thought she could. I also agree with Carol that she would not want Jamie to carry that burden of guilt alone. Jamie is not exactly the kind of man to take killing someone lightly. He didn't even kill Black Jack when he had the chance while breaking Claire out of Fort William, even after seeing how Black Jack was threatening her life and honor. This was his uncle. It was as much an emotional battle for Jamie as a physical one. I think Claire would recognize that and want to help. - Diane
DeleteCarol! Now YOU are making me cry. Hope you have recovered :-) Thank you for another amazing season of recaps!!! Love you two and the feels you bring to your videos. Please add some posts during Droughtlander. Voyager read along maybe? Enjoy the rest of your summers!
ReplyDeleteI haven't watched that part of the video yet, Miss Marlu. I am afraid! LOL! And we will definitely be making some videos during Droughtlander...so YOU should be afraid, too! Ha! 😘
DeleteHey, ooohhh Droughtlander. I kinda liked that Claire wasn't just waiting to watch the fight finish and helped Jamie kill Dougal.
ReplyDeleteThe light at the end was a bit bright, but it was Samhain so the sun should have had some special effect with the centre stone.
My big take away is how much I love Roger. He stole most of his scenes.
My big hope is that the next season shows Randall being killed, cuz it's a bit of a Chekov's gun and my husband will be p.o.ed if he doesn't get his justice.
Thanks and let us know when the next chat is!
Therese in Nova Scotia
By the time I watched your recap I had already viewed it 7 times. I would never describe Clair's tiny gray streaks as "Cruella Deville', but get why some are bothered by them. I understand that there was too much to cram into this episode, and we lost the night in the croft - but pray that Claire and Jamie's reunion in Voyager will make up for it (even though their lovemaking as they make their way back to other might be tentative at first - they will likely make up for 20 years apart, as quickly as they can.) I loved every freakin' minute of it, but noticed that one of the trailers on Starz website showed them being pursued and shot at by Redcoats - and wonder why that was included if it was never in the final version of the finale. And, Carol - there is no need to apologize about bursting into tears and having difficulty controlling it. We ALL get it, and love you all the more for it. I am kind of shocked that I wasn't blubbering away myself - but in my 7th viewing there are still scenes that make me tear up every time. I look forward to your season recap.
ReplyDeleteDid anybody else think the rhythm of the walk/dance to the stone was the same as Jamie unlacing her corset?
ReplyDeleteDid anybody else think the rhythm of the walk/dance to the stone was the same as Jamie unlacing her corset?
ReplyDeleteHi Ladies, Great podcast on Episode 13. So sad. I cried when you did, Carol, during your podcast. Carol, I have a TURN connection. I saw Nick Westrate, who plays Robert Townsend, in a movie with another Jersey girl, Meryl Streep, called "Ricki and the Flash." He plays her son. Very different role, but fun to see. Looking forward to Season 3 with you ladies!
ReplyDeleteOOOOH DELORES!! Check him out on Twitter...I LOVE him and I love when the actors tweet!! Thanks for the info!! 😊👍🏻
DeleteDid anyone notice the major mistake in the beginning when Claire introduced Bree to Roger as a "history major at Harvard"? Harvard didn't admit women until 1977.
ReplyDeleteSorry, but that is incorrect:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.radcliffe.harvard.edu/about-us/our-history
Radcliffe was the women's college. Harvard was the men's. It was merged in 1977. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radcliffe_College
DeleteSo, you're gonna believe wikipedia over Racliffe-Harvard? Did you even follow the link and read what's there? Your response kind of indicates that you didn't.
DeleteWhat exactly did you want me to read in your link? Radcliffe was the women's college. Harvard was the men's. In 1977 it was merged. Brianna would have gone to Radcliffe.
DeleteRadcliff was initially named the Society for the Collegiate Instruction of Women, nicknamed the “Harvard Annex”, in 1879 because it functioned as a female coordinate institution for Harvard, with instruction provided by the Harvard faculty. They renamed it Radcliffe College in 1894. They conferred Radcliffe College diplomas to undergraduates and graduate students for the first 70 or so years of its history. In the '40s during World War II, Harvard and Radcliffe signed an agreement opening Harvard classrooms to women students for the first time. The Radcliffe Graduate School was closed and Harvard’s Graduate School of Arts and Sciences was opened to women in 1963 and they began conferring joint Harvard-Radcliffe diplomas to undergraduates. The first joint Harvard and Radcliffe commencement was held in 1970 and by 1972 Harvard Yard was opened to female residents. In 1977 Radcliffe and Harvard signed an agreement governing their new educational partnership with full integration and officially merged in 1999.
DeleteEven through they were not yet fully integrated, at the time of the show Bree would have attended Harvard courses taught by Harvard professors in Harvard classrooms and would have received a Harvard degree. The only difference at that time was that her commencement ceremony would have been separate and she would have been living in a separate dorm.
once again you both rock,,,,, love ya
ReplyDeleteThank you for a wonderful recap! Carol you had me crying along with you. That scene of Claire at Lallybroch killed me and still makes me well up thinking about it.
ReplyDeleteGreat episode. I do wish they had done the cutting each other's initials part.
I got goosebumps when I heard Geillis' voice!
This is not to criticize the show but I'm so glad I read the books first. There is so much time given to the yearning and devastation Claire and Jamie felt during the 20 years apart there is a huge emotional payoff when Claire realizes Jamie could still be alive if she went back.
Thx for the recap as always, ladies! My thoughts: I know I'm in the minority it seems, but the jumping back and forth was too much for me. I felt like I never had a chance to really feel what was happening because we kept leaving Culloden intensity for super slow scenes like Bree and Roger at a pub or the lake or attic. It frustrated me and I tried to fast forward to stay in Scotland. I wish it hadn't been so choppy. As a result of the scenes cut so short, I think I especially missed more with the goodbye. I'm so thankful they showed AT LEAST the fast love scene, but a little more emphasis on Jamie's emotion (not to mention, God forbid, something resembling the cottage scene) would have been great. I liked Bree and Roger actually. To me, Claire can be very annoying, it doesn't surprise me that Bree can run her mouth and be a little annoying too! Ha! I thought Claire looked beautiful. I didn't like her helping kill Dougal though. It probably wouldn't have bothered me if not for the fact that it was just another instance of the writers taking something from Jamie so Claire can be the strong woman as always. She's plenty strong and busy in the books without diminishing Jamie one iota. The 'dance' back to the stones was lovely. I finally could see some true love and connection between them. I definitely felt the sunrise was cheesy. I kept thinking of Scarlet O'Hara, raising her fist and saying, 'As God as my witness, I'll never go hungry again!' 😂 I'm canceling STARZ till next season, and I'm hoping they make some changes to the show-- like showing some passion and letting Jamie be Jamie! (I better not see one EW cover that is remotely sexy. A peck on the forehead seems to be enough for this show! Lol!)
ReplyDeleteYES Brandy, you TOTALLY TOUCH ON WHY I WAS UPSET at the end...and I find it interesting that you blame the "back and forth"...yet I liked it. Because you have a POINT!! Maybe THAT is why I felt so gypped at the end...like we never really got to mourn Jamie's loss! I guess I mourned when Claire saw his ghost in the archway (made evident to the masses by my blubbering on camera LOL) but when he was truly gone at the end, when she went through, it all happened so fast that it was like they were barely apart. THANKS - you have given me a ton to ponder! 👍🏻
DeleteI liked the back and forth too! It added to the urgency, and it was like Claire's "stream of consciousness" - these memories of her final days there were being brought to mind by the "ghosts" that had been reawakened by her 1968 return
DeleteOmg. You TWO! i have laughed with you, agreed with you, debated & interacted... and now cried with you. I WUB YOU SO MUCH!!!
ReplyDeleteRight back atcha, sister!! 😘😘😘
DeleteDid anyone notice Bree is not an engineer but a history major. That does impact the story line going forward. I loved your recap. And the "mark me" reading was lol. Please do a wrap up podcast for season 2. Anticipating your insight.
ReplyDeleteDinna fast, Carri. We will be doing a wrap up video verra soon. (I dinna know why I'm talking like Pocket Jamie...but I am. 😂) Tracey and I have to get our schedules together and "just do it!" :)
DeleteDoesn't Bree change back and get her degree in Engineering from MIT? Of course we only have THE BOOKS (as in THE BIBLE, the source material, the stuff Herself wrote) to go by here. But after she finds out more about Jamie, Claire, and Frank, didn't Bree embrace her inner nerd and opt for the scientific side?
DeleteBree WAS a history major (like Frank). She changed her major to engineering later on.
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to enjoy the final episode as TV. Listened to RDM's comments explained why there was not even a flashback or a short montage of Culloden to wrap up only the most important battle in Scottish history. Would have tied up loose ends like who died, but he did answer some questions on his podcast so I don't want to write any spoilers.
ReplyDeleteI felt the music and cuts between the times of history were pretty jarring with the music, fewer would have been better, and better transitions - but that is an editor's and music staff choice.
I actually went back and watched the first half hour of 201 when Claire comes back before I watched 213 again. Made it all the more poignant.
There were times where emotions kicked in, and I'm not much of doing that for film or TV. But seeing Jamie at Lallybroch and Claire talking to the Fraser stone were moving, very moving. When she overheard the "dragonfly in amber" comment - that registered very emotionally with me as it confirmed Jamie was on the battlefield to Claire. Even after reading DG's comments, I still identified with it's meaning.
I too missed the cutting of initials of J and C, as was "herself," but at the end of the day, it's up to the showrunner and not the author. I think she's been given a lot of leeway in input on the show - more than any author of any source material for TV or film that I am aware of.
Opening credits are negotiated with agents and up to the showrunner. Yes, there have been some shows that could put credits at the end, but it's pretty rare in b'cast or cable TV because of agents and what credits mean in a career with SAG/AFTRA. HBO pretty much is one channel that can get away with putting guest cast at the end of their series credits.
While I know this was to tie the two centuries together, I was only really moved by the Claire/Jamie portions. I think new characters will have to be an acquired taste and will take getting used to seeing new faces. I was pretty invested in the many characters we lost.
I felt Cat played the emptiness of 20 years weighing on her very well. There was such a feel of a lost life and living one she didn't want,that she did capture.
For Dougal's scene, I know Cat wanted to be involved, but also Dougal had cut (I believe) Jamie's bad hand and it seemed she wanted to make sure there was enough strength to get the job done.
RDM did say they could not get permission to shoot at national monuments - but no spoilers here.
I thought they finished DIA as well as they could based on the shooting decisions they made. They think Voyager will be easier to break into 13 episodes. They were clear that DIA was a real challenge. - jefsantamonica
Tracey and Carol, thank you for the wonderful recap. I really needed that extra cry and laugh. MOP is for me like ESPN is for my husband after he watches sports. Its the analysis and comparisons of what we all watch that makes it a complete Outlander experience.
ReplyDeleteI really loved the finale. It exceeded my expectations. I love Roger, just like I thought I would. I wondered if they were trying to make him look a bit soft and professor like so there will be a notable transformation later as he becomes a highlander. Did everyone hear the "smells like a effing BBQ" from Roger? Made me laugh. However, I'm going to need an attitude adjustment over Brianna simply because I really needed the blue eyes. I'm sure I will get over it and will love her, but it was such a big part of her book description and is mentioned so often, particularly in comparison to Jamie.
Lots of super 60s fashions, music, tourist site. I loved Claire's classic Burberry coat. I could just hear the costume/set round table discussions. I cried during any and all references to goodbye or loss. I made it personal because I was a young teenager living in Europe in 68 (military family) and said so many goodbyes to people never seen again.
The last part of the lead up to Culloden felt rushed, but still well done all thing considered. Jamie's close ups were fantastic and he looked every bit the warrior. I particularly loved his expressions during "Kill Charles Stuart?!" so classic.
Personally, I remember loving the part at the cottage where Jamie turns around and Claire puts her hand on his back and blesses him, but I knew we weren't getting that. In the end, I really did put the book down and just enjoyed the entire episode.
Carol, I gleamed a bit of advice from you early on. Last year, I listened to all of the podcast after every episode and enjoyed them because they were so informative, but I also heard things that made me say Dang, I wish they hadn't done that! So this year when you mentioned that you didn't listen to them immediately, I thought, good idea! I think it helped me step back a bit and just enjoy the show. Can't wait till next season!!
I guess that makes Brianna Roger's "Brown EYED lass" !!
DeleteHere are some of my thoughts on the season finale that was near perfection in my view.
ReplyDelete1. Claire (and her hair) make sense to me. When she first appears in the episode I saw what everyone saw, and that is a breathtaking beauty of the 1960's: so MOD,yet polished and pulled together. As I looked deeper I saw Claire's hair as the metaphor for her life since her return through the stones - ironed within an inch of its life; teased up; and hairsprayed into a shape and appearance that evokes the taming of something wild into something unnatural. Claire has subjugated herself for the greater good - to give Brianna a safe and happy childhood and a "proper" upbringing. She has created a veneer of normalcy which is like her hair - stiff and fake. Which brings me to ....
2. Brianna. Yes, her behaviour is "bratty" but why not? She has grown up in the warm glow of Frank's total devotion and indulgence. A real Daddy's princess. And now at 20 she finds herself not only having to come to grips with the sudden death of her idol - BUT - finding out that he's not her biological father?!?! Who would not be supremely pissed off? Claire's stoicism, British-stiff-upper-lip, and traumas shut her off emotionally and created that distance between her an Brianna that Brianna tells Roger about. So yeah, Brianna is bratty.
3. Roger. Book-Roger was "meh" to me. But TV-Roger... love, love love at first sight.
Carol and Tracey,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for a great recap. I laughed and cried with you. Totally missed the Fiona stink eye and had to go back to catch that. I was reaching for tissues as Carol was crying about Jamie in the archway after I had already cried on my own. Laughed with you at the comparison of the Lallybrook deed to how we treat the Declaration of Independence... never would have even thought of that, you two are so funny!
Mary Tyler Moore finale comparison had me laughing,.. although I loved the waltz to the stones.
You two so get it, there is so much wonderful in these books and yeah, we are so hungry for any scene which includes Diana's beautiful words, like Tracey says, a dog panting over a juicy bone. I haven't been doing any rereads and, after last year, was nervous they would mess this finale up and tried to view with no expectations for anything from the book. I think that helped, and I ended up really loving the finale. I always love hearing your take, you come up with stuff I would have never thought of.
Oh, and by the way, Carol, I binge watched Season 1&2 of "Turn", on Netflix and caught up on Season 3 on Fios on Demand. That finale had me crying, too.
Looking forward to making it through Droughtlander with you two.
Colleen
Carol and Tracey, I have loved all your recaps. Every week, I couldn't wait to see what your take would be on the latest episode. So, thank you so much, Ladies.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the second half of this season much more than the first. The best thing I take from the show is the almost perfect casting of all the characters. They come to life in my mind now whenever I reread the books. The best thing is seeing Jamie Fraser in the flesh. My one criticism is that there was not enough Jamie, and he was not allowed to be as wonderful as the Jamie of the books. Some of my other favorites, Mother Hildegarde, Maitre Raymond, and "mahk me" BPC. Love the highlanders, too. They will all be gone now. Will miss them.
But, at the end, the parting at the stones was very moving, as far as it went. I missed some of the exchanges between them. I missed the (dare I say it?) mark me! There was no "C" or "J" to console them in the years of separation. I missed the part about Jamie thanking Claire for his hand, etc.
Maybe it's superficial, but the wrong eye color can be distracting. I got used to the fact that Claire had blue eyes instead of the much touted "whiskey" colored eyes. I could accept that Jenny had dark eyes instead of the same eyes as Jamie. But, Brianna is really distracting with those dark eyes. She was supposed to be the image of Jamie, something elemental to the story in my view. It looks like they could have found someone who looked the part, since this was so emphasized in the book. Claire keeps saying "You're so like him." And come on, TV Claire and TV Jamie both have beautiful blue eyes. They could not have a brown-eyed child. They would each have two blue genes to contribute, since blue is recessive. Neither would have brown gene pass on to their baby. It's not believable. Maybe Bri is a changeling. lol
I still think this series could have been near perfect, if they had resolved Jamie's healing at the abbey and gone on in the spirit in which Diana wrote that very important end of Outlander.
I love Murtagh. TV Murtagh was better than book Murtagh. I will miss him so much.
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DeleteI was having the same issues with Bree's eyes, even to the point of reading up on genetics and eye color. Turns out eye color is determined by several different genes, and yes, blue eyed parents can have brown eyed kids. But what bothered me most about Bree's eyes was that when I saw her I thought, "Hmm, so that's what whiskey-colored eyes look like." The coincidence is annoying, kind of like having to listen to so many "Mark me"s after I'd already re-read the initial carving scene in the book, and then heard (weeks ago) that there would be no initial carving in the TV show. Those "Mark me"s mocked me, and I'm afraid Bree's eyes will do the same.
DeleteYes, well. It might be possible, but it isn't that likely. Look at the entire British royal family. And Bri having brown eyes doesn't fit the story. She is Jamie's daughter and the fact that she is practically the image of him is something that keeps Jamie's memory vibrant in
DeleteClaire's mind . She is the ever present living reminder.
I had to spend a lot of time contemplating that scene where Claire assists with Dougal's killing (won't call it murder because it was clearly self-defense). I don't see it as Claire stealing the spotlight from Jamie because that is one spotlight that Jamie would never have wanted. Despite their rivalry, Jamie did love his uncle and had no wish to kill him, and it disturbed him emotionally for doing so regardless of the circumstances. He is not a petty or vindictive man for the most part. Vengeance, yes, but this was not a case of vengeance. He tried everything he could to talk Dougal down so that it wouldn't come to this. I think Claire recognized this and saw how Jamie was holding back and hesitating to do the deed, thereby endangering himself. Her own history with Dougal was fraught with much more danger than Jamie ever experienced from his uncle and she had a total absence of the familial compassionloyalty that Jamie had. Physically, both of the men were exhausted before the fight even began, but Dougal had a rage that was driving him that Jamie didn't have which put Jamie at a disadvantage. Add to that Jamie's mangled hand from Wentworth and the hand slash that he took at the beginning of the fight and he was in trouble, bleeding so badly that his grasp on he knife was uncertain. I think Claire also felt some guilt for being the cause of the fight for suggesting the poisoning of BPC. I saw her motives as wanting to aide her husband in a time of need and of sharing the emotional burden of the deed. This is not the first (or the last) time that Jamie has paid in blood for Claire's rash actions and/or words. I vote Yea.
ReplyDeletePromises
Oh that's just a lovely perspective!! Thank you for sharing it! :)
DeleteI saw Dougal as growing increasingly unhinged mentally, really beginning back in Episode 105 - remember all those impassioned "Long Live the Stuart!" speeches in "Rent"? I think that's why he did so much to protect Claire in 106 and 107 - he was really protecting his rebellion. I just saw him as progressively losing it from then on. That speech he gives right before the fatal fight - about giving your heart to something only to realize you've been betrayed - I think that had less to do with betrayal by a woman than with the realization that his political cause had been lost. I think at that point he was ready to lash out at anyone. The realization that all was lost probably caused him to have that super strength people get when they are in extremis.
DeleteOK, so a question from a non-book reader...maybe kinda spoilery(?) When Claire says at the end of the episode that she needs to go back to Jamie, how does she know what year that the stones will take her back to? In the show, they see Geillis go back through in 1968, and I assume that she arrives BEFORE or in early 1743 because she was there when Claire arrived the first time and was established in the community and had already married Mr. Duncan. Since I haven't seen that the stones come equipped with any contraption that allows one to dial in the desired year (ala Marty McFly in the DeLorean and Bill and Ted in the phonebox), how does Claire know she won't arrive before Jamie is born, or if she goes soon after Geillis then before Jamie met her the first time? Maybe this is explained in Geillis' notebooks?
ReplyDeleteSorry if this was already discussed in the recap or in the comments...I am writing this from Denmark this morning and haven't had a chance to see the recap or read all comments yet. Leaving for a cruise today and one of our port visits is Invergordon (Inverness). We're taking an Outlander Tour with Inverness Tours...so exciting! I saw that Diana Gabaldon will be giving a talk at Culloden on the evening of the 22nd, but will be touring Culloden the very next morning so we'll just miss her talk! I'll try to send some pics of the Outlander Tour to Carol.
P.S. I really want to watch your recap now but fear the video (or me laughing out loud) might not be appropriate here in the hotel lounge area!
I saw this just after I posted, so I thought I'd take a stab at answering your question. More about the lore of the stones and how they work will gradually be revealed, but we got a couple of clues this season. They mention a buzzing sound near the stones, but Jamie can't hear it. Also, in this episode Jamie gave Claire his father's ring, but back in the season premier we saw that the gemstone had been burned out of it.
Delete****Spoiler****
Not everyone can time travel, and there are ways to help "steer" to a desired time. In the books, gemstones help to survive the passage, and each trip through gets harder to endure. Honestly though, after reading all the books, there are still many unknowns.
Hope you enjoy your trip! I made it to Edinburgh many years ago, but didn't get further north. Still, it was great!
Yes to the above but also with the proviso that we SHOULD see Claire, Bree, and Roger spending some time early in S3 trying to "find" Jamie. After all, they have reason to believe J survived the battle, but where would they find him at the point where Claire is ready to go back? After all, 20 (or 202) years have elapsed, and Jamie could have relocated ANYWHERE. I'm hoping they'll intercut their search for records of what happened to him with actual scenes of some of the things he did - Lord Melton, The Dunbonnet, Ardsmuir, Helwater, Geneva & Willie, Lallybroch (Leghaire, ugh!), and Edinburgh - as a way of telling his story during the separation. I know RDM hates Jamie, so I don't know how much we'll actually get (maybe one or two scenes); but I can still hope.
DeleteThank you for entertaining us this season! Even when I felt disappointed, watching your fun recaps always helped “make it better.”
ReplyDeleteThis episode is visually stunning and contains some great acting – esp. Balfe and Heughan. Roger is great, and I like the Geilis change. My favorite scene is Claire at Lallybroch. Oh yes, Carol, I cried there, too - and then shed a few more tears along with you. The Lallybroch scene also made me sad again over how little time we had to spend there after Paris. Remember, we had to leave Lallybroch because we needed to go spend some time with… Laoghaire! (Oh, I’m getting EMOTIONAL again! But tissues won’t help me because I can’t throw them very far, and there’s no satisfying crashing sound!!!)
Tracey, that was a great catch on the hypocritical “mortal sin” comment. But book Jamie is much stronger than show Jamie - in many ways. Dougal’s death is a case in point. I wish they’d kept true to the book, but it seems nobody on this production has heard the adage, “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.” Had it been Jamie on bottom, losing because of his weak hand, then… maybe? But Jamie had the knife’s direction, his youth, weight, and gravity on his side, so adding Claire onto the top of the pile was like overkill (look, a pun!). Also, the timing of those last seconds added a hint of premeditation that didn’t sit well with me. When I recently said that I hoped they wouldn’t blacken Claire’s character anymore over the plan to poison BPC, it never occurred to me she’d help kill Dougal. RDM said he likes to surprise the fans; I just wish he meant in less ridiculous ways.
The thing that left me the saddest about this finale is that we really didn’t get to SEE much of this beautiful, timeless love that Claire tells us about. The show was so preoccupied with plots and plans that we had already been told would fail, that it didn’t bother to focus on the love between Jamie and Claire. That should have been at the heart of this season, especially since we knew a separation was imminent and that an ardent and forgiving Frank was waiting in Claire’s future. We were shown many scenes of J&C at odds, disconnected, or in a marriage that looks like a nearly platonic buddy-ship, but we weren’t shown much proof of a soul-deep love. Expecting viewers to just take that for granted is sloppy storytelling. It was sweet victory to hear Claire proclaim that Jamie was the love of her life, but that should have been more clearly shown. We didn’t have to see more sex scenes, but we did need to see more intimacy. Besides, no one does pillow talk better than Jamie and Claire - so at least give us the words!
The scene at the stones deserved much more time, and that “quickie” wasn’t a very satisfying act of parting passion. It seemed perfunctory, rather than an act of love between two soul mates who never expect to see each other again. I could have used a lot less Bree, and a couple more minutes of Jamie and Claire. I loved hearing so many of DG’s words as they were parting, I just wish they hadn’t been crammed into such a small space of time. I would have even liked one last poignant shot of Jamie, alone, leaning his head against the stone after Claire had traveled through.
I hope I can eventually come back to this season and not re-experience the disappointment of opportunity wasted. As for this finale, as beautiful and re-watchable as it is, it still leaves me feeling a bit like the victim of a Jedi mind trick, where I'm told, “This is NOT the tense and tepid relationship you saw all season. THIS is epic love.”
Dolittle
My sentiments exactly. You always put it so well. I haven't minded some of the changes from the book, but when the show has departed from the true essence of the book, the love story of Jamie and Claire, I have to ask myself why. What did it serve to minimalize the romantic story? Why were the scenes we all wanted to see, grudgingly and almost resentfully meted out in the most abbreviated form possible.
DeleteCarol (I think) said that we never felt the loss of Jaime and the separation because it was so rushed. I felt that in the short time they had to rap up the story, they managed to do this. The scene when Claire goes to visit Cullodon is very important. She both re connect to her history and the "Fraser" part of her she put aside for 20 years, and also really saying goodbye and accepting the separation. She is making us feel it too and go throuh this with her, especially if you're not a book reader and you think Jaime died in Culloden. That's why this part is so central and important.
ReplyDeleteAs always, loved your recap. Going to miss the smiles and the tears that are a part of MOP and mostly the heart and soul that comes across even when you critisize parts of the show... Adi
Somehow we might get a video post based on how the Emmy noms turn out. Always hope, but there is much competition from many shows that have not won, been on the air longer, have better known actors, higher ratings and last but not least if the Emmy's admit it or not,can be political. Not saying it's fair, but many fine shows and actors have never been nominated, let alone won.-jefsantamonica
DeleteHi Tracey and Carol. GAH! Droughtlander already. I can't wait until Withoutlander is over so we can get back to your hilariously wonderful recaps.
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo...a couple of observations:
Carol - I burst out crying at the exact same instant you did in your video because I saw that emotion building up on your face. I just wanted to hug you. The whole scene at Lallybroch with her seeing Jamie! GAH! I ripped my heart out too.
And Tracey -- I agree with your feeling that it WAS put in there for books readers...thank goodness it was. I have been reading all kinds of reviews indicating that THAT wordless scene by Cait is the one that will earn her the Emmy. The way she conveyed all the emotions in her face through the whole Lallybroch scene was stunning
About Geillis' 10,000 pounds. I know she "put some away" from Arthur, but wasn't it Sandringham who gives Dougal the money? Am I remembering that wrong?
About Dougal's demise: In the book, Dougal comes after Claire--not Jamie. It was a matter of Jamie DEFENDING and PROTECTING Claire so there is no way Claire would have ever been involved in the stabbing. Plus, I feel it did a disservice to her having taken the Hippocratic Oath. Also, those lines that Dougal utters to Jamie in the show are different than the book where he is saying he thinks Jamie has been bewitched by Claire and he tries to get Jamie away from her. At least that is the way I remembered it.
Tracey - I agree with you on the harsh cuts in the episode. The two most jarring being during those Dougal death scenes. I mean we are in the middle of this major trauma that just happened with Jamie...and Claire...traumatically forced to kill Dougal and they cut away without even giving the characters time to realize what had just happened? Didn't like that at all...it took most of the emotion out of it for me.
Carol -- I also agree with your perspective on the F bomb. I may have been typical for Bree to use those words to Claire as she is a bitchy daughter, but Claire should have been much more emotional about her response--not angrily cursing back. This WAS the love of her life and she sacrificed it for Bree, so she should be angry at Bree--but I feel it was a missed opportunity for Claire to convey the emotional connection with Jamie better. I hated how she says "he was the love of my life" in an angry manner. Those words should have been spoken with the poignant emotion we know Cait is capable of delivering.
I will be checking in for the next nine months until our S3 baby is delivered. Thank you both for being wonderfully entertaining.
This was definitely one of your best recaps! I always get so anxious waiting for them. When I first started watching, my husband asked, "What on earth are you watching?" I told him it was just like a girl chat. He said, "Boy, ya'll sure can talk!" I loved Tracey's comment about the Deed of Sasine and the Declaration of Independence! Also the one about the age of her house (1893 I believe). On our first trip to Scotland, I felt the same sense of how we in America think 200 years is a long time. We rope off things and aren't allowed to touch history. There we were touching relics thousands of years old, looking at cemetery stones barely legible, and climbing around in castle ruins! I too, laughed when the lady walked out with the Deed of Sasine like it was an ordinary piece of paper and even putting it though the copier! I've come to a place with this adventure in Outlander where I can just divorce the books from the TV series and enjoy each for what it is. Not much bothers me (well, maybe seeing Laoghaire out of context....), so the scene at the stones was fine and worthy of a second ugly cry after Claire's visit to Lallybroch. I loved Claire's hairdo. It totally looked Mrs. Robinson from The Graduate(1967)! Perfect Roger stole my heart. I'll warm up to little Brianna soon enough. I do hope you two ladies will help us all though Droughtlander. Maybe a "book club" chapter read/discussion of Voyager? I would sooooo love that! Also, I'm mourning the downtime for Turn too! This is just too much! Help us!
ReplyDeleteLinda Duncan
Late to the party as usual.
ReplyDeleteFirst, thanks Carol and Tracey for more hilarity and tears. I actually cried with you this time.
You have entertained us with your recaps this season, even when you were sleep deprived, had house guest, a little surgery, a child's confirmation, no air conditioning (What!), etc. How can we not feel like real friends. I'll miss you coming into my home each week almost as much as the show.
Ok, first thoughts about your recap this week.. You nailed it again. I think most of us have loved this season, but have missed some opportunities for a little more Jamie and Claire intimacy, not so much the physical but the loss of some of Diana's wonderful words.
I just watched the very first episode as a refresher, and here's my take on things. The series has come a long way. Acting and production have greatly improved. I remember your saying after the first episode that you couldn't tell one Highlander from another and look how we came to love Murtagh, Rupert, and Angus. Anywhooo, back to this episode - love Roger, might someday like Bree, and Sam and Cait have become the actors they were born to be. Everything wrapped up pretty well, but I did miss that last night In the cottage. I thought it would be the same cottage used in the first episode where Claire set Jamie's arm, oh well.
Looking forward to whatever you have for us this year - Turn or Gilmore Girls, whatever.
As for Claire's curls being missing in the wet '60's of Scotland, I'm old enough to remember rolling my long Cher like hair in orange juice cans and sleeping on my face to get that straight look. Lots of hair spray and an occasional warm iron were involved for that look. Dang, I'm old. I think Terry nailed the look as I remember it.
Carol and Tracey, What a great post! I look so forward to your reactions after each episode. I sit here and talk to you like I was with you. Laughing, crying, agreeing and disagreeing I couldn't enjoy myself more.
ReplyDeleteI loved this episode. I try to do what Diana said and put down my book. After all she hasn't steered me wrong in 20+ years. I, like you, have opinions about how the story that I love is presented. I liked the cutting back and forth. I had thought I would get one story then the other. It gave me a chance to recover emotionally and pay better attention. Some segments seemed a little abrupt but I can, and do, watch it all again.
I loved Bree and Rodger! Bree showed traits from each parent. Jamie's stubbornness and confidence. A bratty attitude no doubt due to Frank. And Claire's controlling the situation. I will say I am glad that you pointed out Fiona's traits. I was so busy watching Rodger look miserable at her attentions I missed her. He was great! So was she! I noticed Bree's eye color but let it go. I thinks she looks like Jamie. As for height well Claire is tall so that story line is decided.
I cried lots during my first two watchings. Less after that. Jamie at Lallybroch will always get me. As with everything, that scene was played so well by Cait.
The way they killed Dougal was certainly a surprise. I thought it diminished Jamie. They made the point that he needed help and of course Claire would help him. Still I sometimes think Ron is trying to minimize Jamie being The King of Men. I also think he tries to minimize the intimacy so no one says this is a love story. The two reasons I love these stories most.
I loved the goodby to Fergus. I loved Murtaugh too. Want him to be saved but... I also want them to stick to the books. If you change the story it changes what will happen in future episodes. Hmmm imagine changing the future...
The goodby scene was wonderful. I did miss the cottage and the "mark me" scene. I was crying so hard I didn't see much the first time. I liked the Dragonfly in Amber reference. Loved the hands.
Al in all I feel so blessed that these books that I have loved so long have been brought to tv and I get to interact with my fellow readers.
I thank you for all that you do. It is greatly appreciated. Look forward to you both helping me through this droughtlander. Your fan, Kare.
I have said this here before over the last two years, and FYI: At NO point is Jamie Fraser EVER referred to in any of the Outlander books as "The King of Men." I checked it MICROSCOPICALLY, believe me! That term is a near-pejorative one invented by the Outlander TV writers - I suspect mostly by RDM and Ira Behr - to refer to Jamie. It says volumes about some of the writers' utter contempt for the Jamie character - and by extension for the actor who plays him. I repeat: "King of Men" has nothing to do with the books or the Jamie Fraser character as written. Totally a TV creature.
DeleteThe King of Men moniker was most certainly NOT invented by RDM or ANYONE connected to the show. That came from the Outlander FANDOM a loooong time ago. And yes, thank God, RDM is trying to tone that down so that the character can be taken seriously!
DeleteThanks, Ladies, for your pithy review video. The Finale was a beautiful 90 minutes of television. It would be exciting for a viewer to see who knows nothing about the show. But for us, the readers and regular viewers, I felt the choppiness was unnerving, though I think today's viewers have shorter attention spans.
ReplyDeleteRoger captured my heart on TV: in the books, I think he is wimpy, but I thought Rik portrayed him well, so naturally. I look forward to his scenes with Claire. Bree was bratty, her usual unlikable self, so spoiled by Frank. Her eyes didn't bother me, but I am anxious to see her scenes with Jamie: I want to see her boldness and gunshooting. She seemed immature in this ep but she's supposed to be 20.
The Lallybroch and Culloden scenes with Claire were spellbinding. She says she tries not to think about Jamie for 20 years, and "Now the ghosts are chasing her" in Scotland. They were good scenes.
Why did they have Claire stick her big paw in the fight scene? Ron has mentioned wanting to include Claire in scenes, well, the 1968 parts are mostly Claire, and Bree and Roger, but Culloden is for Claire and Jamie! In the future, if they want more Claire (for Cait to have more to do), they should write in a healing scene every week. Those moments in the book were exciting and fun to read and Claire can operate and sew up to her heart's content.
I missed the cottage scene but I knew they wouldn't include something so long. I even asked for at least a Quickie love scene, last week on this blog, and so I got what I asked for. It wasn't very satisfying, but Jamie's speech was so important I didn't care what they did. Sam was wonderful. I liked the urgency of the Culloden scenes. I loved Jamie turning his head when he heard the cannon while declaring his love to Claire. Let's hope during Voyager they stay with Jamie scenes, cave and prison, without flashing around.
SPOILER: I have a feel that since Mary McNab was not introduced this year, she will not appear in Voyager....so who might we see in the cave? A certain loathsome "maiden"?
I loved the Finale, the spectacle and the scenery. We need more Jamie next year. We need more Love scenes and Love speeches. I'm not concerned about the makeup or hair coloring. I hope they don't change the story too much.
I'm looking forward to your next video!!
Hi Tracey and Carol! What a great breakdown! I want to confirm something I heard you discuss, Bree's hat and clothes. In 1968 I was 18 yrs old. I had a hat just like the one she wore. It was my Beatles hat! lol. The Beatles and the "British Invasion" made quite an impact on American culture including clothing styles. I had the stove pipe pants, the scarf, the works. Terry Dresbach has Bree's look down perfectly.
ReplyDeleteHi Carol and Tracey! Love you guys! Just wanted to put my *two cents* in on why I think Brianna is so unliked by almost everyone. When DG wrote Brianna in the beginning, she was not a fully realized character. Except for her uncanny physical likeness to Jamie, and her loyalty to Frank (the man who raised and loved her for 20 YEARS), we knew nothing about Brianna the person. This means that since we Don't Know Anything About Her we can only *characterize* her by reaction to another character's story,THAT IS IT. This writing choice is 'stacking the cards' against her from the beginning. Where as with William we were given a fully thought out character, before he was confronted with his parentage. As well as, the foreknowledge of these two characters' relationship (I.E. Jamie parenting at Helwater). We don't get that with Claire and Brianna til after we meet Bree. So we associate the characterization of Brianna, FIRST by her physical appearance. Which has many in an *uproar* in terms of the TV show, people listen they are not going to recast her. Sophie is a really great *mesh* between Sam& Cait. The show has decided to make Brianna look like BOTH of her parents, so that automatically goes against Bree's initial *presence*(characterization) in DIA. This is also why lines from the book 'you are so like him' have no impact in the show. SECOND, Brianna's loyalty to Frank and dislike of Jamie. It makes no sense for her to *automatically* be loyal to, or even like Jamie, a man SHE DOESNT KNOW. BUT the viewer and/or reader does know Jamie, creating a conflict of interest between reader/viewer and character (since we don't have Bree's POV). Brianna's initial introduction is at the fault of the writer, and not the character herself. This is true for both book and show. So ultimately...BRIANNA IS AN UNDEVELOPED CHARACTER FROM THE BEGINNING OF HER STORYLINE!...AND is the reason that she is so unlikeable from the beginning! Again thank you ladies, can't wait for next season:)
ReplyDeleteOr.....I just really wanted to see a 6 foot wild curly red headed Brianna with brilliant blues eyes who looked just like her daddy. LOL
DeleteThat's my point...readers only associate with Brianna by her looks, because that's how DG introduced her as an extension of Jamie. Making Brianna the female version of Jamie, this intentionally makes you put Jamie's characteristics onto Brianna. That is not a fully developed character ( by herself). The show decided to make Brianna both Claire and Jamie , so the book *preception* of Brianna is not valid for the television show. For some this sucks, but again that's part of adaptation.
DeleteBeing almost a total contemporary of Bree's age-wise, I think they got a lot right with the character. 20-year-old young women in 1968 WERE selfish, rude, mouthy, politically-awakening, interpersonally-inept, intellectually-curious, impatient, daddy's girls, with mommy issues. I do wish, though, that they'd had Claire refer to just ONE personality trait she saw Bree as having in common with Jamie (stubborn, wanting the truth, charming, intellectual, loyal - to name a few), rather than constantly going back to the hair, the hair, the hair. Drove me a bit nuts.
DeleteDid want to say, as a Rik Rankin fan: I loved him before; was thrilled when he was cast (altho I was not part of the gaggle that vocally clamored for it); and he did NOT disappoint.
I was 24 in 1968. The clothes are spot on for both Claire and Bree. However, I don't remember any of my friends using the F word nor did I ever hear my parents use it. I believe the first time I heard it in the media other than books or "blue" comedy albums such as Lenny Bruce, was Barbara Streisand yelling it in the movie The Owl and the Pussycat. Maybe I lived in a less "cool" area ... Florida on an air force base ... but I just knew it was not a word to be used. And the bratty behavior Bree used with Claire was also not the kind of behavior me nor my friends would ever use toward a adult. The conventions of behavior certainly were different in different areas of the country but to many women my age (ahem ... in our golden years) we didn't generally use profanity ... in public anyway. And as the daughter of an army nurse I never heard my mother use anything other than "Jesus Mary and Joseph" or "Sh*t* ... NEVER Fword. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteTrez
Love the show. Love your recaps.
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DeleteI agree with you, especially the F word. Then, behaviors were different. Did Diana write the F word in dialog between Bree and Claire? As far as teenage attitude, I sure displayed that!
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