I loved this episode and there were so many parts of it where I could literally quote from the book. The privy scene at the beginning was a great homage to the book readers, although it would have been hilarious to see that on the screen. The Murtagh/Lord John conversation sets things up for a lot of excitement in future episodes and I think that once Jamie is more comfortable in his situation, he will be able to tell Murtagh what he's thinking (maybe he isn't quite there yet, himself?)
We know he picks sides and determines when to declare himself because of the book, but, even there, he hasn't determined a course of action just yet. He is still relatively new to his situation and does feel some loyalty to Tryon for his land and the life he and Claire are living.
The Lord John/Claire dynamic was as tense and intimate as it was in the book, and referencing Garrison Commander in the live tweet, made clear what I had watched. Again, I was able to quote directly from the book. Kudos to the writer of this episode.
The interaction between Jamie and Willie was spectacular and very true to the book as well as what I would imagine to be in rl. Now comes the uncomfortable part. In the book, Jamie and his neighbors are friendly with Ian going back and forth and visits taking place. In the show, the relationship has been tense but not exactly dangerous with a mutual respect if nothing else.
The scene with Jamie, Willie, the fish, and the Indians was extremely overdone, in my opinion. Willie had been told, sternly, to stay within the boundaries set by the King, and the markings on the trees. He did not. I can see teaching a lesson, but to seemingly threaten their lives was a bit much.
I loved the bathtub scene and the ring. The fade to black was awesome. I said, last week, that 405 was my favorite episode so far, but this one is really close to it, due to Willie. More ugly crying last week but tears, nonetheless, this week, too.
What a wonderful episode and then....the Indians show up. No disrespect intended for them, but it was incredibly stupid. I have never been so vocal at the TV screen. I am so with you Tracy. We were decorating our Christmas Tree and I almost threw the ornament I was placing at the TV. How could the show people have watched that and thought that was the right thing to do?! But...so glad we finally got the RING and the inscription and the sweetness of our Jamie.
I agree with you, Tracey :) I thought the scene with Jamie, William and the Cherokee was ridiculous. I actually screamed at the TV! The "Jamie" I know from the source material would never react that way - of course the relationship between the Tuskorora (not sure of the spelling) and the Frasers was very different "in the books". I was so enjoying this episode up until then. I don't mind the changes in Jamie and Willie's relationship. I always thought it was a little far-fetched that Willie wouldn't recognize "Mac", but that's just me :) I also agree with you in that this was the first episode that Claire hasn't got on my nerves :) I love the books, the show and your podcast!! Looking forward to the next episode....
I loved this episode, and the Indian scene didn't bother me. Maybe they have just had it with everyone taking their land and were just trying to scare them. I know you hate it Tracy but some of them have to speak English or we'd be reading a lot of subtitles. The bathtub scene was amazing and I must say those were no 50 something year old boobs. lol
Adding to MOP commentary of Ep 406 The mutually exclusive aspect of Claire and Murtagh's friendship stems from their intense emotional search for Jamie in earlier season. This wasnt shared with ANYONE ELSE. This makes for a special bond. Jamie and John Gray also have an exclusive bond/friendship suppers, chess, book discussions and then later the love and protection on Willie. When these 2 friendships meet again. All that comes flowing back in their memory. On top of which men should have a friend they can trust for no other reason than they have a sympathico , having gone through rough times together. You know the rest
Enjoyed the show better on balance this week, than others of this season. More Jamie, less Claire, more emotional subtext, fewer hystrionics. The roaming Native thugs are problematic. But otherwise, bringing LJ and Willie onto the scene with Murtaugh was an interesting twist on what was otherwise a very Diana G episode. Closest I’ve come to wanting to watch an episode twice this year. Still not convinced that the writers or Catriona can do this book justice. So I’m committing one show at a time. For Sam (H) and Dian(a G)! ;-)
First, I love Claire and less of her is not a good thing. Roaming Native thugs? I didn't see it that way, they were sick of people taking their land so they wanted to teach them a lesson. I feel they were never going to kill anyone, they didn't even do much to them, a little cut big deal. 4 out of 6 episodes this year have been very very good, the best since season 1 so I could watch them all more than once. Lastly I think Cat and the writers are doing a great job doing the books justice, books will always be better that's just the way it is. So I guess we just disagree.
Thanks for clarifying. I get why the Natives are restless, I just don’t think that it’s necessary that whenever we see them, they’re two dimensional and are mostly portrayed as harassing settlers. I don’t envy the writers, having to manage expectations of the readers and nonreaders who may have known these characters for 25 years. But they did buy the rights to televise Outlander, rather than coming up with their own idea. Probably harder than if they had started from scratch. Built in audience also means built in critics. Still trying to keep an open mind!
This will not be a popular comment but there is more than one opinion to be had about Murtagh's reappearance. While I find the actor to be terrific and the character very likeable, I am disturbed by the departure from the novel and its original intent. I can see that he gives Jamie someone to confide in and Murtagh is privy to Claire's true origin, but I can't help wanting the show to be closer to the novels.
I can appreciate your interest in staying closer to the novels. That’s why I liked this episode so well. Quite a bit was directly quoted from Dg’s writing which I think, added depth and warmth. I guess, missing other favorites like Jenny and Fergus and Lj, bringing Murtaugh back adds some added dimension to Jamie’s character, since they’ve given so much extra time to Claire’s, (which I don’t think served her as well as Catriona.) So, I guess I see Murtaugh’s character continuing in service to Jamie’s. Even if he adds more stress and suffering to Jamie’s situation. Doesn’t hurt that a little tension and humor comes along with those eyebrows of his!
I was really hoping to see Willy and snake! I love the humor in the books and wish they would put more in the show. I think they are missing the part of book that made all the characters really human. We can only hope they read our comments and take note! 🙂
Other than that very small thing, I loved the episode. I didn’t mind the Indians and I sure didn’t mind Lord John Grey either. Lol He is definitely a head turner. Him riding up in that coat ... wow!
I love to hate Willy too. He was never my favorite character but I definitely had some empathy for him on this episode. Maybe seeing it changes perspective??
Looking forward to Bree and Roger. I hoping Sophie gets to use her Irish accent and her fierceness comes out. We will see.
I liked the episode, but not as much as last week's. So many mixed emotions about this one. But I have to say first up, that the actors did an amazing job. I think maybe my vision is still too full of my dislike of the book character of Willie. I did have moments of softening towards tv Willie though, mainly due to the writing softening him to some degree, so we'll see where that goes in the future.
As to the bond between Claire & Murtaugh, it is one of deep love without any sexual aspect entering into it. More like family. That's why I love them together so much. The bond between Jamie & LJG is different. There is a sexual hinting there I never got from the books, but these actors have such a chemistry that it comes out whether or not it is supposed to, who knows. I think that is the gut reaction that Claire feels too, moreso than the connection of Willie they have. Then when LJG blurted out that remark about Jamie's offering, I was gobsmacked. Just as Claire was I think. I hated that part so much. I also understood Claire's reluctant acceptance when he spoke of loving someone who you could never be enough for (or however that was that linked in Frank in her mind). I think Claire never really questioned Jamie's love of her & she has confidence in that, but still if any of us were in her position, wouldn't you feel uncomfortable? She can fight for him with a woman, but LJG? How could she fight that were it to come into play? I truly understood her demeanor here.
I did agree that the Indian scene was ridiculous. I actually did like the conflict at dinner with Murtaugh. Murtaugh's mistrust of LJG was pretty complex and for more than just taxes IMO. He is the gatekeeper of Jamie & Claire. I think that too was underlying there.
The fade to black was perfect. The gentle humor and connection. I still love this show, but to be honest, sometimes the love scenes tend to be too porno and feels too much like added filler to appease those that want it to be a bodice ripper. Outlander was never a bodice ripper, so the extent that they would go just seemed too much many times to me.
One last thing, you guys cracked me up with the hair! So true! I'm with Carol, I think this is Sam's real hair and they've had to add in some extensions to bring the curls and length. Probably due to his other movies. But overall, the wigs are atrocious this year. Except for Murtaugh. His has been great so far.
I'm enjoying these episodes. Even if I hadn't read the books, I love this story. However, even before hearing Tracey's comments, I was annoyed at the appearance of more Indian violence. And Jamie announcing that Willie was his son. Oh, for pete's sake. Unnecessary!! Couldn't they write it better than that? I foresee many changes. I'm trying not to compare it to the book. It's a great visual experience and I love it that we're in America. I'm not a a big fan of Murtagh and I didn't like his reappearance BUT if it brings more scenes with Jamie, I'm for it. Let's have love scenes every week!
I really enjoy your videos. Not sure if anyone has brought this up but in the opening credits for this season there is the shot of a bunch of Indians traveling on horseback. Did you notice they have a prisoner who is stumbling behind one of the horses? The Indians have him tied up in ropes. I'm a book reader so don't want to spoil who it is.
I really loved this episode too, and I agree it is because the majority of it is word for word out of the book. Now, as much as I appreciate that, the conversation between LJG and Claire...which is exactly as in the book...drove me nuts. I mean, LJG does not know about BJR, right? He wouldn't understand Jamie using his body for protection to save the ones he loves. So he pretty much just said to Claire, your husband wanted to sleep with me. I'm sorry. I cringed in the book, and it felt worse here because we were not reading Claire's thoughts. Cait's facial expression was good, but I would not have been as calm as she if someone said that to me. The nerve of him.
Anyway, I read the actual script posted on OutlanderCommunity.com and in regards to the Indians, they had every intention of scalping Willie, then Jamie as a substitute. But it is mentioned that when Willie confesses it was just him, the "chief" was so impressed by their love for each other and the bravery it took for the kid to do that, he decided to spare them. I kid you not. That is exactly what they said in the script. No way in H E double hockey sticks would that Indian spare them if he intended to kill him due to violation of their contract with the English. It was a bad plot point used just so they could have Jamie utter the "he is my son" words and to confuse Willie further. I'm side eyeing this whole thing because of the Bree photo debacle. As a book reader, I know where the Willie story goes, so I'm hoping they are not going to "Frankify" him and add him in places he shouldn't be. That "look back" is clearly setting things up for more Willie/Jamie and if it is in place of Bree/Jamie, I'll be throwing a brick at my TV. Thanks again for another enjoyable recap Tracey and Carol. Marian
Totally agree with you, especially in your “Frankifying” comment! There’s plenty of source material. No need to create and beef up more distracting characters. Looking forward to the next post-show podcast and discussion.
I felt bad for Jamie when he asked Willie if he still had the snake he had carved for him. Willie responded like “my dad takes me to Ye Olde Toys R Us for better toys than that.”
Did anyone notice that Claire had much less gray in her hair in this episode than last week?
In the season wehre Jamie and Claire meet Lord John in Jamaica A conversation between JL and Claire at the reception she responds to LJ Jamie told me EVERYTHING. Jamie also said that if JL had agreed he(Jamie) would have snapped his LJ 's neck right then and didnt care if they killed him for it. Sooooooooo Claire did know this.
RE: "Jamie's" hair. He's been using hair pieces to thicken it for the camera since season 1, and the pieces have gotten longer/thicker over the years. He started using this horrendous wig at the very end of S3 - It's actually a dramatic difference in the previous scenes (on the boat/underwater) to them washed up on the beach and all of a sudden he has really short (wet!) hair and bangs! WTF?! This is when Sam cut his hair short for SPY. So far he's been wearing this wig with the awful bangs for all of S4. :/ I keep hoping he's going to get lice and need to cut his hair into the short cut in the promo posters!
They really missed a huge opportunity when they had to age Sam for the 20 year time jump. If they swept his hair off his face--he would look handsome, and more mature and differentiate him from what he looked like in the early seasons. (almost like Murtaugh's wig hair - or real life pics we've seen of Sam with his hair swept back!)
grrrr argh! I was never a huge fan of the curly "mop" Jamie has - but the bangs are so much worse. I have hair rage this season.
I loved this episode and there were so many parts of it where I could literally quote from the book. The privy scene at the beginning was a great homage to the book readers, although it would have been hilarious to see that on the screen. The Murtagh/Lord John conversation sets things up for a lot of excitement in future episodes and I think that once Jamie is more comfortable in his situation, he will be able to tell Murtagh what he's thinking (maybe he isn't quite there yet, himself?)
ReplyDeleteWe know he picks sides and determines when to declare himself because of the book, but, even there, he hasn't determined a course of action just yet. He is still relatively new to his situation and does feel some loyalty to Tryon for his land and the life he and Claire are living.
The Lord John/Claire dynamic was as tense and intimate as it was in the book, and referencing Garrison Commander in the live tweet, made clear what I had watched. Again, I was able to quote directly from the book. Kudos to the writer of this episode.
The interaction between Jamie and Willie was spectacular and very true to the book as well as what I would imagine to be in rl. Now comes the uncomfortable part. In the book, Jamie and his neighbors are friendly with Ian going back and forth and visits taking place. In the show, the relationship has been tense but not exactly dangerous with a mutual respect if nothing else.
The scene with Jamie, Willie, the fish, and the Indians was extremely overdone, in my opinion. Willie had been told, sternly, to stay within the boundaries set by the King, and the markings on the trees. He did not. I can see teaching a lesson, but to seemingly threaten their lives was a bit much.
I loved the bathtub scene and the ring. The fade to black was awesome. I said, last week, that 405 was my favorite episode so far, but this one is really close to it, due to Willie. More ugly crying last week but tears, nonetheless, this week, too.
Loved the recap! Thanks, gals!
What a wonderful episode and then....the Indians show up. No disrespect intended for them, but it was incredibly stupid. I have never been so vocal at the TV screen. I am so with you Tracy. We were decorating our Christmas Tree and I almost threw the ornament I was placing at the TV. How could the show people have watched that and thought that was the right thing to do?! But...so glad we finally got the RING and the inscription and the sweetness of our Jamie.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Tracey :) I thought the scene with Jamie, William and the Cherokee was ridiculous. I actually screamed at the TV! The "Jamie" I know from the source material would never react that way - of course the relationship between the Tuskorora (not sure of the spelling) and the Frasers was very different "in the books". I was so enjoying this episode up until then. I don't mind the changes in Jamie and Willie's relationship. I always thought it was a little far-fetched that Willie wouldn't recognize "Mac", but that's just me :) I also agree with you in that this was the first episode that Claire hasn't got on my nerves :) I love the books, the show and your podcast!! Looking forward to the next episode....
ReplyDeleteI loved this episode, and the Indian scene didn't bother me. Maybe they have just had it with everyone taking their land and were just trying to scare them. I know you hate it Tracy but some of them have to speak English or we'd be reading a lot of subtitles. The bathtub scene was amazing and I must say those were no 50 something year old boobs. lol
ReplyDeleteAdding to MOP commentary of Ep 406 The mutually exclusive aspect of Claire and Murtagh's friendship stems from their intense emotional search for Jamie in earlier season. This wasnt shared with ANYONE ELSE. This makes for a special bond. Jamie and John Gray also have an exclusive bond/friendship suppers, chess, book discussions and then later the love and protection on Willie. When these 2 friendships meet again. All that comes flowing back in their memory. On top of which men should have a friend they can trust for no other reason than they have a sympathico , having gone through rough times together. You know the rest
ReplyDeleteEnjoyed the show better on balance this week, than others of this season. More Jamie, less Claire, more emotional subtext, fewer hystrionics. The roaming Native thugs are problematic. But otherwise, bringing LJ and Willie onto the scene with Murtaugh was an interesting twist on what was otherwise a very Diana G episode. Closest I’ve come to wanting to watch an episode twice this year. Still not convinced that the writers or Catriona can do this book justice. So I’m committing one show at a time. For Sam (H) and Dian(a G)! ;-)
ReplyDeletecouldn't disagree with you more
DeleteAnd why is that?
DeleteFirst, I love Claire and less of her is not a good thing. Roaming Native thugs? I didn't see it that way, they were sick of people taking their land so they wanted to teach them a lesson. I feel they were never going to kill anyone, they didn't even do much to them, a little cut big deal. 4 out of 6 episodes this year have been very very good, the best since season 1 so I could watch them all more than once. Lastly I think Cat and the writers are doing a great job doing the books justice, books will always be better that's just the way it is. So I guess we just disagree.
DeleteThanks for clarifying. I get why the Natives are restless, I just don’t think that it’s necessary that whenever we see them, they’re two dimensional and are mostly portrayed as harassing settlers.
DeleteI don’t envy the writers, having to manage expectations of the readers and nonreaders who may have known these characters for 25 years. But they did buy the rights to televise Outlander, rather than coming up with their own idea. Probably harder than if they had started from scratch. Built in audience also means built in critics. Still trying to keep an open mind!
This will not be a popular comment but there is more than one opinion to be had about Murtagh's reappearance. While I find the actor to be terrific and the character very likeable, I am disturbed by the departure from the novel and its original intent. I can see that he gives Jamie someone to confide in and Murtagh is privy to Claire's true origin, but I can't help wanting the show to be closer to the novels.
ReplyDeleteI can appreciate your interest in staying closer to the novels. That’s why I liked this episode so well. Quite a bit was directly quoted from Dg’s writing which I think, added depth and warmth. I guess, missing other favorites like Jenny and Fergus and Lj, bringing Murtaugh back adds some added dimension to Jamie’s character, since they’ve given so much extra time to Claire’s, (which I don’t think served her as well as Catriona.) So, I guess I see Murtaugh’s character continuing in service to Jamie’s. Even if he adds more stress and suffering to Jamie’s situation. Doesn’t hurt that a little tension and humor comes along with those eyebrows of his!
DeleteThank you for your reply. Your points are well-taken.
DeleteI was really hoping to see Willy and snake! I love the humor in the books and wish they would put more in the show. I think they are missing the part of book that made all the characters really human. We can only hope they read our comments and take note! 🙂
ReplyDeleteOther than that very small thing, I loved the episode. I didn’t mind the Indians and I sure didn’t mind Lord John Grey either. Lol He is definitely a head turner. Him riding up in that coat ... wow!
I love to hate Willy too. He was never my favorite character but I definitely had some empathy for him on this episode. Maybe seeing it changes perspective??
Looking forward to Bree and Roger. I hoping Sophie gets to use her Irish accent and her fierceness comes out. We will see.
I liked the episode, but not as much as last week's. So many mixed emotions about this one. But I have to say first up, that the actors did an amazing job. I think maybe my vision is still too full of my dislike of the book character of Willie. I did have moments of softening towards tv Willie though, mainly due to the writing softening him to some degree, so we'll see where that goes in the future.
ReplyDeleteAs to the bond between Claire & Murtaugh, it is one of deep love without any sexual aspect entering into it. More like family. That's why I love them together so much. The bond between Jamie & LJG is different. There is a sexual hinting there I never got from the books, but these actors have such a chemistry that it comes out whether or not it is supposed to, who knows. I think that is the gut reaction that Claire feels too, moreso than the connection of Willie they have. Then when LJG blurted out that remark about Jamie's offering, I was gobsmacked. Just as Claire was I think. I hated that part so much. I also understood Claire's reluctant acceptance when he spoke of loving someone who you could never be enough for (or however that was that linked in Frank in her mind). I think Claire never really questioned Jamie's love of her & she has confidence in that, but still if any of us were in her position, wouldn't you feel uncomfortable? She can fight for him with a woman, but LJG? How could she fight that were it to come into play? I truly understood her demeanor here.
I did agree that the Indian scene was ridiculous. I actually did like the conflict at dinner with Murtaugh. Murtaugh's mistrust of LJG was pretty complex and for more than just taxes IMO. He is the gatekeeper of Jamie & Claire. I think that too was underlying there.
The fade to black was perfect. The gentle humor and connection. I still love this show, but to be honest, sometimes the love scenes tend to be too porno and feels too much like added filler to appease those that want it to be a bodice ripper. Outlander was never a bodice ripper, so the extent that they would go just seemed too much many times to me.
One last thing, you guys cracked me up with the hair! So true! I'm with Carol, I think this is Sam's real hair and they've had to add in some extensions to bring the curls and length. Probably due to his other movies. But overall, the wigs are atrocious this year. Except for Murtaugh. His has been great so far.
I'm enjoying these episodes. Even if I hadn't read the books, I love this story. However, even before hearing Tracey's comments, I was annoyed at the appearance of more Indian violence. And Jamie announcing that Willie was his son. Oh, for pete's sake. Unnecessary!! Couldn't they write it better than that?
ReplyDeleteI foresee many changes. I'm trying not to compare it to the book. It's a great visual experience and I love it that we're in America. I'm not a a big fan of Murtagh and I didn't like his reappearance BUT if it brings more scenes with Jamie, I'm for it.
Let's have love scenes every week!
I really enjoy your videos. Not sure if anyone has brought this up but in the opening credits for this season there is the shot of a bunch of Indians traveling on horseback. Did you notice they have a prisoner who is stumbling behind one of the horses? The Indians have him tied up in ropes. I'm a book reader so don't want to spoil who it is.
ReplyDeleteOoooh! Good catch! I had not noticed that little diddy. I played back the opening and had to look closely. Thank you for that.
DeleteI really loved this episode too, and I agree it is because the majority of it is word for word out of the book. Now, as much as I appreciate that, the conversation between LJG and Claire...which is exactly as in the book...drove me nuts. I mean, LJG does not know about BJR, right? He wouldn't understand Jamie using his body for protection to save the ones he loves. So he pretty much just said to Claire, your husband wanted to sleep with me. I'm sorry. I cringed in the book, and it felt worse here because we were not reading Claire's thoughts. Cait's facial expression was good, but I would not have been as calm as she if someone said that to me. The nerve of him.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I read the actual script posted on OutlanderCommunity.com and in regards to the Indians, they had every intention of scalping Willie, then Jamie as a substitute. But it is mentioned that when Willie confesses it was just him, the "chief" was so impressed by their love for each other and the bravery it took for the kid to do that, he decided to spare them. I kid you not. That is exactly what they said in the script. No way in H E double hockey sticks would that Indian spare them if he intended to kill him due to violation of their contract with the English. It was a bad plot point used just so they could have Jamie utter the "he is my son" words and to confuse Willie further. I'm side eyeing this whole thing because of the Bree photo debacle. As a book reader, I know where the Willie story goes, so I'm hoping they are not going to "Frankify" him and add him in places he shouldn't be. That "look back" is clearly setting things up for more Willie/Jamie and if it is in place of Bree/Jamie, I'll be throwing a brick at my TV.
Thanks again for another enjoyable recap Tracey and Carol. Marian
Oh please no to "Frankify" of Willie. I didn't ever particularly like Willie, except during Hellwater, so I really hope they don't do that.
DeleteTotally agree with you, especially in your “Frankifying” comment! There’s plenty of source material. No need to create and beef up more distracting characters.
DeleteLooking forward to the next post-show podcast and discussion.
I felt bad for Jamie when he asked Willie if he still had the snake he had carved for him. Willie responded like “my dad takes me to Ye Olde Toys R Us for better toys than that.”
ReplyDeleteDid anyone notice that Claire had much less gray in her hair in this episode than last week?
In the season wehre Jamie and Claire meet Lord John in Jamaica A conversation between JL and Claire at the reception she responds to LJ Jamie told me EVERYTHING. Jamie also said that if JL had agreed he(Jamie) would have snapped his LJ 's neck right then and didnt care if they killed him for it. Sooooooooo Claire did know this.
ReplyDeleteRE: "Jamie's" hair.
ReplyDeleteHe's been using hair pieces to thicken it for the camera since season 1, and the pieces have gotten longer/thicker over the years.
He started using this horrendous wig at the very end of S3 - It's actually a dramatic difference in the previous scenes (on the boat/underwater) to them washed up on the beach and all of a sudden he has really short (wet!) hair and bangs! WTF?!
This is when Sam cut his hair short for SPY. So far he's been wearing this wig with the awful bangs for all of S4. :/
I keep hoping he's going to get lice and need to cut his hair into the short cut in the promo posters!
They really missed a huge opportunity when they had to age Sam for the 20 year time jump. If they swept his hair off his face--he would look handsome, and more mature and differentiate him from what he looked like in the early seasons. (almost like Murtaugh's wig hair - or real life pics we've seen of Sam with his hair swept back!)
grrrr argh!
I was never a huge fan of the curly "mop" Jamie has - but the bangs are so much worse. I have hair rage this season.
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